Episode 125 – $100M Podcast, UFC at Apex, Woodley vs. Burns Preview

***Exclusive Interview with Arjan Carlos Moreno*** Joe Rogan lands $100M Podcasting deal with Spotify, the UFC plans its next event at the APEX center in Las Vegas for Woodley vs. Burns on May 30, and we talk to Muay Thai coach and president of the American Muay Thai Association, Arjan Carlos Moreno, who talked to us about the state of the MMA world and fighter safety.


Ryan Smith 0:09
Welcome to combat sports talk a podcast dedicated to UFC and bellator discussion, the MMA community and combat sports in general. I’m your host Ryan Smith. And joining me this week is the man with the keys to victory john keys. What’s up, man?

John Keyes 0:26
What’s happening online the keys to victory but I got a fresh cut

Ryan Smith 0:29
too. Oh, very, very nice. Yeah. And the coach to the future of MMA, the one and only George g money Star Wars. What’s up?

George Stallworth 0:43
Hey, Bri, you know,

Ryan Smith 0:44
pretty good happy Memorial Day to both of you

George Stallworth 0:49
guys, okay,

John Keyes 0:51
we’ll say good Memorial Day.

Ryan Smith 0:55
It’s a solemn day so it’s hard to say Happy Memorial Day but you Merry Memorial Day or good Memorial Day, I didn’t know really what, what word precedes Memorial Day. I can’t just say it’s Memorial Day. You can

John Keyes 1:10
say, hey, it’s Memorial Day. Have you had a good one? Okay. Which, you know, it was raining today but you know, rain don’t hurt the military. So that’s how it goes.

Ryan Smith 1:22
All right. All right. Did either of you do anything interesting grill anything do anything besides besides just stay out of the rain?

John Keyes 1:34
Yeah, grilled. You know, did my my yearly grilling fajitas hamburgers, hot dogs, you know, traditional stuff. poured a little bit for the homies and my fallen brothers and sisters and the rest I have for myself. Yeah. All right, George.

George Stallworth 1:52
I had work today I had a couple of classes to teach and some privates and speaking of interesting day, I’m sitting here right now. As my girlfriend is sending her anatomically body parts, just to tease me while we’re doing the show, I guess she’s trying to make me crack up and laugh.

John Keyes 2:08
Right? What I’m

Ryan Smith 2:10
setting up.

George Stallworth 2:12
My girlfriend, my girlfriend works in, I guess you would call it in the medical field. Oh, part of what she does is she speaks to groups of people about a guess about what’s what what I say. catheters is her specialty. But with that comes a urology piece of it. And so as a result, she has anatomically correct body parts in order to provide demos and right now for my enjoyment. He said those two male and female anatomical body parts up right here, so I’m just to go ahead and make me laugh while we’re on the show. All right.

John Keyes 2:48
Okay, so

George Stallworth 2:51
for your day

Unknown Speaker 2:54
go ahead.

Ryan Smith 2:57
No, no, no, no.

John Keyes 3:00
I’ve I had that training when I was in the military. Yeah. Okay. Because before I went to the Ordnance Corps, they were they sent me to they’re gonna make me a medical specialist, which is the same as a paramedic here in the civilian world. And we want things they we had to train to do with catheters and animals and all that good stuff. So yeah, I’m up to speed. We need see that

Ryan Smith 3:24
we’re family friendly. My wife is a nurse. So if I need to have any questions, I can just go ask her.

John Keyes 3:30
Yeah. And when you were setting that up, I was like, about the performing arts here, or,

oh, Lord, you know, we’re family friendly.

Ryan Smith 3:41
Well, talking about performing arts, there is an art to what we do. It’s called podcasting. And the greatest podcaster seems to be a person by the name of Joe Rogan. He is our headliner tonight. So let’s get right into it.

This is the headliner. This is where we talk about the topics that are making the big waves in the MMA world. And this time, it’s the fact that Spotify is paying Joe Rogan an alleged amount of money of a $100 million. You got to put your pinky to your mouth when you say it.

John Keyes 4:25
That’s right. $100 million.

Ryan Smith 4:29
So, yeah, UFC commentator Joe Rogan just signed a massive deal with Spotify to take the Joe Rogan experience the JRE all the way to Spotify. The contract could max out at $100 million over a few years. So that is a gigantic sum of money. You know, I would like to just make a fraction of that with with combat sports. That’d be great.

John Keyes 4:58
I mean, I like the Joe Rogan experience. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve learned so much from that podcast and but 100 million dollars of learning. I don’t think they do TED talks for that much.

Ryan Smith 5:10
Yeah, you know, they don’t, they don’t at all. They don’t do a season worth of TED talks for that much. It is it is an insane amount of money and that insane amount of money is not lost on Joe Rogan. He says it feels gross. He says that, especially given the time that he is signing this contract. While other people are losing their jobs they’re going without. He is basically coming in with a windfall of money. And it’s like, that’s just not his personality. It’s not his persona, to feel great about achievement, given the context of everything going on with the Coronavirus, so I respect that.

John Keyes 5:53
So he’s gonna feel bad until he gets that first paycheck,

Ryan Smith 5:57
perhaps, perhaps, but I’d like to think that Joe Rogan has the humility to know that it’s probably not the time that he wants to be driving down the strip in a you know, in a you know Bugatti or something

George Stallworth 6:10
new Bugatti

Ryan Smith 6:13
let’s not do that let’s just stay at home and be be the same.

John Keyes 6:16
You can still be humble and still, you know and your bank account has one small number but a whole bunch of zeros behind

Ryan Smith 6:25
well you know, it’s it’s it’s possibility versus probability. Well, it’s possible but when you got all those zeros it becomes very difficult not to beat not to get that Chin up a little bit.

John Keyes 6:40
So Oh, okay.

George Stallworth 6:42
Okay. Oh wasn’t doing too bad to start with. I mean, his podcast alone was raking in what I think like 3 million per year. That’s not even including his probably UFC pay his his shows as a comedian. I mean, so Joe wasn’t a popper before either this

John Keyes 7:00
So I’m gonna ask this question. So let’s just say you wake up tomorrow morning, you know, and you look at your bank account and you’re like, Oh, look at that. That’s, that’s $80 million in my bank account. Woody, are you gonna continue to go to work? Are you are you gonna come in to the to do your presentation as you always wanted to do your presentation?

George Stallworth 7:26
Well, I mean, Joe has always,

yeah, yeah, like he’s not built like that. Yeah.

John Keyes 7:34
We got Joe got here. Ryan. George. George.

George Stallworth 7:40
will not be going to work on Monday morning. Good morning. Thursday morning, Friday morning, Saturday, and Sunday is the Lord’s day so I was gonna rest anyway.

John Keyes 7:55
What about you, Ryan? Are you are you going? Are you doing the iPhone dude? presentation that you had written out the night before? Or are you going to do the presentation that you read out in your heart didn’t know

Ryan Smith 8:08
I have already you know, whenever we’ve had the lottery go up to be like the hundreds of millions of dollars you know, I’ve played a couple of times and I’ve always imagined what I would do if if I did win and I had decided in myself that I was going to go ahead and like finish out some of the work that I had done because I have just flipped over from I have to do this because I have to to now doing this because I want to and that takes a lot of pressure off so I would definitely give them some chance to to find somebody else. But man combat sports talk. I mean, it still is pretty nice right now, but dude, we will have we would be like a television studio.

George Stallworth 8:59
Just about

Any place that I work with would become part of combat for

John Keyes 9:04
shops to do

George Stallworth 9:06
excetera you

know me like

any and everything that I ever want to do, all of a sudden, all those businesses are taking over anybody else’s business who I was affiliated with.

Ryan Smith 9:15
That’s right. So So yeah, that’s what you would see if I came into $80 million, you would see this brand freaking everywhere. But you know, so so I shout out to Joe Rogan, he has a great show. He has great guests, he’s well worth $100 million, as long as I’m not paying it. So, you know, I can’t wait to see he says it, nothing’s gonna change. I’m excited to see what it looks like whenever he gets the bass distribution model that that Spotify offers. Let’s get into the next, the next segment, which is finding the angles.

This is finding the angles This is where we look at the head. lines that are making waves in the MMA world. And we’ve got a lot of things to talk about. But what I’m most excited about is what we have on the schedule tonight. And that is, we’ve got an awesome interview with our john Carlos Moreno. And he took some time on Friday to talk to George and I about a whole lot of things. So I want to get to that. But there’s a couple of things I want to get to first before we get into that, and then we’ll play a clip of the interview, which is in its entirety on YouTube, and will be on our website on Tuesday. So let’s get into some of these other headlines before we get into the interview. The first one is there is another event coming up for the UFC. It is going to be Woodley vs burns in Las Vegas, and so the Nevada commission set a hearing on combat sports return. So that was one of the questions that we had outstanding from last week is that now that the UFC showed that it is possible to have three events in one week in Florida, they want to come back to their home. base which is in which is in Las Vegas. And basically, the Nevada State Athletic Commission has been suspending all of all of the fights until further notice. So they just had a review on Thursday, the, and they’ve revealed plans for a meeting on the 27th, where they’re going to discuss the protocols and what they would take to have to bring back this sport. So that’s pretty exciting.

John Keyes 11:30
Oh, I’m kind of nervous about this. I don’t think that we’re ready for it. I’m giving the guidelines. I’m glad the UFC has went out of their way to do what they’ve done, and they’ve done a phenomenal job of doing it. This is a next level situation here. I mean, we got questions, are we gonna, it’s still gonna be the same format. It’s just nobody’s gonna be in the arena. It’s just gonna be the fighters. their, their, their their corner, and the ref is Oh no.

Ryan Smith 12:07
Well that here’s the thing. They’ve enhanced the protocol. So the lessons that they’ve learned from Florida they are enhancing it so they can get it approved in Nevada. And so the the short version is fighters will be tested when they arrive at the athletes hotel, and they will remain isolated pending results that should resolve what happened with Joker Ray Sousa, fighters will be tested a second time after wins, and then they will remain isolated pending those results. So they’re able to get through the first gate they’ll get weighed in. If they’re able to get to the second gate they’ll be able to fight biters and their teams must have the Nevada Athletic Commission approval to leave the athlete hotel during periods of isolation so they won’t be able to leave the hotel once they’re there. And they’re going to have to get special approval to be able to leave and then fighters in their teams must avoid physical contact with non camp members during our isolation. So if you’re not part of this camp, you’re not to that crew of people, then you can’t go and have contact with another group, because you could be risking potentially catching COVID-19 because everyone’s in isolation while the testing is being done and, and and results are being found. So it’s a little bit tighter than it was in Florida. And that’s what they’re thinking we’ll help them control the the risk of infection.

John Keyes 13:32
Okay, well, I like that type of paranoia.

George Stallworth 13:37
You know, I’m wondering why don’t they test the fighters prior to them even getting on the plane. It’s like, why, if you can have knowledge of someone prior to them flying out, they won. That gives you a little bit more leeway in finding a replacement if you need to need to save somebody a trip, if they don’t need to end there at where they can go ahead and seek medical attention as appropriate. You know, I’m just wondering what the reasoning behind that is, is more cost effective, not too

Ryan Smith 14:09
well, because if you test somebody before they leave, let’s say, for instance, they leave, they’re at their place, you test them there. Once they get on that airplane, they have just entered into a closed environment with other people on the airplane where they could be exposed. So you’re still gonna have to test them, even if they

George Stallworth 14:28
No, I’m not saying don’t test them when they get there. I’m saying it if you want to go stringent, you think about it this way. Joker Ray Sosa if he had been tested before he got on the plane, we would have known that days in advance there would have been no way in with him. We could have found you Ryan Hall a replacement fight already. You get what I’m saying you still the testing that you’re already putting in place still remains as an additional precaution. Now, we also want to test you prior to leaving your own home.

Ryan Smith 14:58
I think it’s cost at that point that then They’re not gonna they’re not gonna incur those costs because technically, where are you going to go? How are you? How are you going to? How are you going to orchestrate that for, you know, if you have, if you have 10 fights on the card, let’s say 12 fights on the card. That’s 24 camps. That’s, you know, let’s say four people. You saw the test one person.

George Stallworth 15:22
Right, but they they test one. They test fighters all over glow. 10 people in homes, they do these things.

Ryan Smith 15:32
They but yes, but they are on retainer. I don’t think you saw this doing COVID-19 testing. So that means whoever’s doing the COVID-19 testing is going to be employees are employed somehow by the UFC, which is an additional cost that they may have. Just saying.

George Stallworth 15:48
All I’m saying is, these are. These are Chrono times, these are pointing times. You know, we don’t have to play by railer rules we can. We’re flying by the seat of our plant pants. So let’s go ahead and do so. Some things to up the ante a little bit. Again, my point in this is it may seem cost, you know if Yeah, adversarial to right. But when you think about it in real terms, we could have found another fight to replace that UI Hall fight

Ryan Smith 16:17

George Stallworth 16:20
I don’t know. It’s just my thoughts, man. You said Okay. Is there testing going on two weeks after your fight like right now? Do we know that any of those fighters from the last three weeks tested positive or not so

Ryan Smith 16:34
for those people who are just listening to the audio version of the podcast, we are shaking our heads know right now? There’s none of that. We don’t know that we know we don’t know what

John Keyes 16:44
we don’t know what happened to shocker I’ve been I’ve been searching I’ve been scouring there’s no mention of shocker a right now. Alright, so I mean, my boy could be abducted by aliens right now and we don’t know what’s going on.

George Stallworth 16:56
All right. God dropped a beat right?

John Keyes 17:01
I’ll just say, Man, that Florida right there now, in that in that quarter they call it lightning alley for read lightning strikes. They’re more than any other place in the entire United States. And it’s not too far away from the beaming trying that that is not true.

Ryan Smith 17:19
Lightning does not strike more in Florida than it does anywhere else in the United States.

John Keyes 17:25
sure about the lightning corridor. Have you

Ryan Smith 17:26
heard of the lightning? I have not heard of the lightning corridor, but I am. I have very good. I know that there are other places that gets more lightning strikes than Florida. There you go. You can go ahead and search that we’re gonna keep going with the show. All right. So here’s the thing. The next fight is already according to Dana White. The next fight is April 30. He is going to be in Nevada law in Las Vegas, Nevada, in the apex Event Center. Now here’s the thing about the apex Event Center. is a 25 foot, octagon not a 30 foot octagon. So it’s a smaller, it’s a smaller arena, then they you normal, it’s a smaller, smaller cage and they normally fight him. So the fighters are going to be closer, they’re not going to have that same breath of space to move around. And that’s going to benefit some fighters and it’s going to be a detriment to others. Hmm,

John Keyes 18:25
that is a tactical disadvantage. I will have to say there. And oh, look at that. Did I just find out why Florida is the lightning capital of the US. Oh, wow, look at that. But anyway, back to my, to my, to my, what I was saying before that, you know, a lot of people don’t think five feet means much. It means a lot. That means that there’s going to be it’s kind of like it Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s great. We’re making them get a little bit closer to each other. So you know, that’s not my They’re gonna be able to run with so I’m okay with this. I mean if we can get it to down to 10 feet you know I’ll be good with that too. You know if we can get it Bare Knuckle Oh my gosh.

Ryan Smith 19:13
Oh my gosh,

John Keyes 19:14
if we get it open wait that’d be great

Ryan Smith 19:18
if we could just say that you’re not knives, knives or swords maybe maybe some shields this would be even better

John Keyes 19:28
medieval combat stuff that’s going on going on over in Europe we don’t want that here we just want Bare Knuckle open Wait, you know UFC one two and three that’s what I want.

Ryan Smith 19:40
So So the reason why UFC one two and three were so was so intense was because of the you know, the different in size of the fighters you know, you were seeing all these different things. There were a lot of Rakim sockem kind of things, big knockouts and that’s why we were so excited about jonesville As in Ghana, right last week we were like that’s what we want to say. It’s Doa. JOHN Jones is is upset he said even before discussing numbers the UFC was unwilling to pay more for the Francis fight they don’t want him to move up to to heavyweight according to john Jones, Dana White said that fans would love to see Jones versus in Ghana but he doesn’t see what’s going to happen. And and and for instance, and God who said the UFC is not willing to make this fight happen, because it’s they’re not willing to pay the money that the fighters say it’s worth. So is this a big fighters? Is it not?

George Stallworth 20:39
is a huge fight and Mark my words, Dana White knows this fight is going to happen. The UFC knows this fight is going to happen. They’re gonna make it happen. It’s just a matter of lining up the UFC best interest in this fight. And then on top of that, because this fight came from the fight income from the matchmakers themselves. So, there’s this whole negotiation piece where the fighters believe the fight is worth a lot more than the UFC wants to pay. And you know, so the UFC has to humble both Francis and john because imagine if they paid him what they want, they’re setting a precedent for the rest of the UFC roster. And hey, I go here, pick me out of money fight, and y’all gotta pay me more than my contract says.

John Keyes 21:28
Exactly. And that’s the problem. A couple things when went south on it, first of all, it is an exciting fight. Okay, this is a fight that that we as fans would love to see. Fighters would love to see this go down. However, it’s something that uncle Churchill said, Okay. You cannot put this out on blast. All right. You can you must say face when you are doing this. Okay. JOHN Jones putting it out there like he did that. was not that was that was poor form. Okay, both fighters sitting out there putting it out like it is poor form and if anything they forced Dana’s hand and Dana’s hand is going to be the one of the smack ones going to get the backhand most likely Jones. Okay, and Ghana’s gonna get the forehand.

Ryan Smith 22:20
I don’t think that’s safe.

John Keyes 22:23
No, it’s not.

Ryan Smith 22:25
Don’t be trying to smack either one. I mean, you shouldn’t try to slap either one. But I don’t like you’re always trying to try to slap Francis in Ghana. That dude picked up Shaq scared Shaq. Shaq ain’t never been that high.

John Keyes 22:40
You know, it was Shaq? 353 25. Yeah.

Ryan Smith 22:43
And, like, that dude was like, like, Wait, what?

John Keyes 22:47
I mean, he picked them up like a backpack. That’s not good. Okay, so, um, yeah, so basically, Dana’s gonna have to force force his hand, and I’m afraid that hand forces What’s gonna what’s gonna resolve that? is Dominic Reyes is about to get a lot it’s about to get another championship run.

Ryan Smith 23:07
I don’t think I disagree with both of you. I think that what it is is it’s fight Island that’s fighting for fight Island. try and try and try and Fight. Fight Island is he is they need to see the islands gonna work and then that’s how you get you get them. This is this is not about money the UFC has the money they know it’s a big fight.

George Stallworth 23:30
No, no, I disagree. I just think about money. The UFC wants to put this before a live audience. Think about the gate that’s missing right now, man.

Ryan Smith 23:41
do I see? Yes, I agree. This is

John Keyes 23:46
right. And on top of that, like Dana said in the first place, this looks like that. Yeah, they may. They may talk about one, but he doesn’t think they really want to either. Okay, and I’m a comic con to come agree with the One, two. Wait, gentlemen. I mean, if they really want to make this fight, Dana would have sat there and said, we’re gonna make this fight. We’re going to set it up for a date. We don’t know what the dates gonna be, you know, the wording of it all like said, john messed it up by putting it all out.

Ryan Smith 24:19
According to john Jones, he said that they told him that when he moves to heavyweight, they will restructure his contract. So that’s what’s motivating him to go to heavyweight is the fact that they’re promising him a restructuring of his deal. Now, here’s the thing from john Jones, his manager who said that the situation was just like, he says, I don’t want to get too much into it. But it’s pretty much a case of john wants to fight Francis. He’s looking to get compensated for it. And they’re like, maybe not right now. It’s not going to happen. And so I think that gives credence to to George’s point that they can’t have fights in front of a live audience and so the gate that you Be able to make on something like Jones versus in Ghana would be huge. So yeah, I you’ve sold me on that. I absolutely think that this is has everything to do with I think this has everything to do with there not being a live audience and they want to save it for that because that would be a huge fight where everyone would turn out. People would turn out in droves in in bars and things like that. It’s almost like that cowboy Sironi versus Conor McGregor style of fight. The bigger amount of money is right there. So why would they hold that fight while we’re still looking at looking at empty arenas and things like that? You sold me on that I completely agree. Speaking of speaking of someone who turned down an offer mike tyson got offered $20 million from Bare Knuckle FC also they tried to get him the axe murder. wonderly silver As an opponent

George Stallworth 26:02
says navigate right

Ryan Smith 26:03
wanderley Oh, who is it? wanderlei Silva? Is that better? Okay.

George Stallworth 26:13
Brazilian slash Portuguese. background. So,

Ryan Smith 26:17
so yeah, but he turned it down and they and and the, you know the guy who runs David Feldman who runs Bare Knuckle FC said it. He said no immediately, but he is not deterred. He said there’s still some room here. He’s like Ted DiBiase he’s like everybody’s got a price.

John Keyes 26:39
I’m gonna say it like this. Mike Tyson and vanderley silver in the same ring. guarantees a ring death. Okay, those two word murdery dead you talk about? i? I’m Oh, willing to do it.

I’m willing to watch it.

Okay, but maybe Make make no bones about it. Somebody is coming away with cosmetic surgery. I promise you Oh, well, yeah. That felt ugly. Well, they both

Ryan Smith 27:10
talking about somebody who came down came out of the ring with cosmetic surgery. Anthony Smith is still talking about the brutalization that he took at the hands of Glover to share. He saying that he is not a victim of bad coaching or bad refereeing. He says he put himself in this position. He says that I’m not a victim. That’s what people want to. That’s what I want people to know. I put myself in this position on purpose. That’s all I want people to know. It’s not that I don’t care that they were upset about it, or that I don’t care. That they care. I love it. I love the responses that I’ve gotten. It was hard to watch and that they love me and they want to see me keep fighting. I love it. I appreciate it. It’s humbling. I just don’t want it to be this narrative that I’m the victim because I’m not. He goes on to say put that on me. Listen, I understand the fan side. I get it. It makes me look great. I’m not anti stopping fights. I’m not anti. I’m not against throwing in the towel. I’m not against cornerman stepping in and saying that’s enough. I’m just against it for me. I personally would stop fights for people that I care about that I’m coaching. I would do that. I have no problem slips, stepping in and stopping a fight. And I think that needs to happen more. Just not with me. I know it sounds nuts.

I can’t go there.

John Keyes 28:29
It doesn’t sound nuts. That’s

Ryan Smith 28:32
sounds nuts. It sounds nuts to me.

John Keyes 28:37
Okay, it sounds nuts to you. To me. He’s made it perfectly clear on what he wants what he wants to happen in the rain. Okay, his corner he told his corner. Hey, don’t do it. And they didn’t do it. So I’m that’s when the ref is supposed to say no, no, I’m not look, I’m not not having this in my ring because he is the ultimate judge. Upset this week. I think I said this last week. I think it’s a week before last. I have no problem with this mentality, but the judge better be there to jump in and stop that.

Ryan Smith 29:09
So okay, so this is this is my segue into coach, our john Carlos Marino’s interview because of all that. He talked about a lot of things. And so I really encourage you guys to go to our YouTube page and watch the entire hour and 20 minute video where he talks about the history of Muay Thai he talks about his his introduction into the sport and how he became, you know, a fighter and a coach and a referee and now a judge. Like those are the things that we want to be able to that we wanted that I thought were fascinating, but the things that he said about the things that he said about fighter safety and the corner taking care of their fighter is what we really need to hear when we hear fighter saying this because I think that when at the end of the day, it’s not only the refs responsibility to keep a fighter safe, but it’s also the corners responsibility to keep a fighter safe. And as coach says, and he’ll say in this clip to save the fighter from himself and with that, I’d like to introduce you guys or introduce you guys to this to this interview with our john Carlos Moreno. Hello, this is Ryan Smith with combat sports talk and I am here today with our john Carlos Moreno. He is the Muay Thai coach at Oakdale MMA and mercy said Mma. He’s also the president of the American Muay Thai Association. We’ve also got George g money Stallworth here, and he is going to be helping us out with this interview coach, our john, thank you so much for for for joining us today.

Arjan Carlos Moreno 30:55
Thank you for having me. Excited. All right.

George Stallworth 30:59
too, man, me too. It’s been a long time coming coach. So,

just to start us off, yeah. Why

don’t you give us a little bit of your history and background as a coach?

Arjan Carlos Moreno 31:11
COACH Carlos. Okay, well

until two years ago back in the 90s my first coaching real coaching gig was in 1993 a no holds barred event and I had my my cousin was actually fighting it and that’s what got me started you know, so I started to tie in moldboard back then after I fought before all that stuff so and you know, UFC came out around the same time. It was really close and talks me and I’ve been we’ve been with this game since since the beginning.

George Stallworth 31:52
If you if you don’t mind, go ahead and tell us a little bit about that. How has it been for you? transitioning from fighter to coach to Judging refereeing and those things and some of the gaps and holes you see, currently throughout the fight scene in general, not just muy Thai but MMA as well.

Arjan Carlos Moreno 32:10
But that’s why I got into it though. So I wanted, you know, in my career, I feel like you know, I’ve, I’m in a point now where I want to keep giving back not just to my students, but I’m seeing the gaps that’s in MMA right now. And I seen the holes that we have and I’m in I feel like that’s where I want to be. Because as I get older and I say I’m 60 dude, How awesome would it be to go up and down states getting paid to sit and sit ringside? capeside watch fights, and tell them what I think, you know, I mean, I guess that’s like ultimate doesn’t pay very well. I mean, they don’t pay very much at all really for but you do you do it because you know, the love of the sport, you know, you want to grow and you want to see it. People you know, watching these fighters man going on, they lose on the decision and they don’t understand why they lost it. They don’t do they’re confused like do what what Thought I won that fight. You know, and I think some of that comes down to the coaching and understanding what’s going on during during that fight and what the referee what the judges are seeing, you know, at some point, you have to understand that, you know, if this judge Hernandez over here, he, you know, he’s probably a boxing guy, so he’s going to be looking for your hands, he’s not going to care about your groundwork. And this other guy here, you know, you know, did some wrestlers and so he’s gonna be looking at the takedowns, you know, and so it’s a matter of, I think these criteria for these judges needs to change. You know, I think one of the one of the things they were doing is they’re having people come in with no experience. No, no martial art background, nothing. And so they would watch the fight and decide who they wouldn’t because they have no idea what’s really going on. They just say this is who I think wins is this guy. You know what I mean?

George Stallworth 33:50
How would the Commission’s ever allow that to an untrained person who has no skill whatsoever? Like what was the rationalization behind that?

Arjan Carlos Moreno 34:00
They’re not biased, kind of not biased, and they’re just seeing what their own naked eyes are saying, you know, and I understand that. And I can see that I can appreciate that. You know, I think there was a time for that. Maybe in the beginning, I think the beginning of, you know, of this whole transition of me, maybe that was a good fit, because nobody really knows what’s going on. But now we’re at a point where, you know, I’m a blue blonde jujitsu, my wife’s a black belt, you know, so, I’ve been exposed to all this my kids wrestle I’m exposed to all this and there’s other you know, I think, I think judging should be like a resume, you turn in like, if you’re a rounded and you understand it, you’ve you’ve been MMA coach, and you’ve, you know, you have a history of a little bit of deep, deep, I think that’s a better judge, that’s going to understand like, okay, so that takedown, and now he’s laying on him, okay. I don’t know how important that is. He’s not doing any damage. He’s just holding them there. And he gets back up and the guy starts throwing bombs on him and gets rocking, takes him down again, just lays on him. It’s you know, They swing one way then they swing the other way. You know, all the takedowns are the most important thing. Well, what do you do with the takedown? If you don’t do anything that takedown that’s just like landing on a lake?

George Stallworth 35:11
Are you getting the stuff in? Is that the reason why you got taken down?

Arjan Carlos Moreno 35:14
Yeah, I mean, I just think that I just felt that that was my next calling and my next step in my evolution as a as a person. And what I’m doing is I want to be, you know, you also want to be a UFC judge. That’s my ultimate goal. You know, and it’s just the steps I need to take to get there.

George Stallworth 35:32
You’re getting guys who are coming up, and they didn’t come from a strict boy type background or a strict jujitsu background. They trained in a little bit of everything now and evolved as a fighter into that they they are pure mixed martial artists as opposed to a Thai fighter who became an MMA fighter or a jujitsu guy who transitioned into MMA, and you’re seeing more and more these guys now think, like Rory MacDonald for us. The guys you know in the UFC are names that, that you could really identify as those types of fighters and that that that’s that’s where I think this is headed. You were talking about the evolution of the fight game in general.

Arjan Carlos Moreno 36:11
Yeah, no 100% 100% that’s, that’s these new fighters are going to have to have different coaches, more than just one coach. They’re gonna have to have an MMA coach who does only MMA stuff and putting this stuff together, they’re going to have to have a jujitsu coach that focuses only on the ground stuff, you have to have a wrestling coach and help on the takedowns they’re gonna have to have a boxing coach up with their hands. You have to Moy type coach to help them with the rest of their limbs. And then the MMA coaches want to put it all together for him and that’s, that’s what a real team of MMA fighters should be is five coaches. So if you’re if it’s five coaches, what gym in America has five elite coaches that you can go to and get everything in one shot?

Zero, right, everybody. Is that and then there’s sparring right, then you gotta have good sparring partner.

I mean, and what, what do you what do you most men and women who fight? What do they want the most of what’s the funnest for them sparring. It’s not about gaining their technique, though, they feel like they think they need to get more sparring in order to get there. And that’s what leads into damage. Because the more sparring you get, the more damage you take, and the more damage you take, you could be hurt before you go to the fight. You could have brain issues going on before you go and you get a concussion from sparring. And now you can go to fight and get knocked out in the first round. And they think that great is great, but they don’t know is that, you know, you’re seeing stars two weeks ago, your last hard training camp, you know, and these are the challenges that we have.

George Stallworth 37:45
So speaking of spar now, I kind of want to pivot over into what you were just talking about CTE and brain trauma. Yeah, and your experience as a coach, how prevalent is it?

Arjan Carlos Moreno 37:55
It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. I mean, I can back in

Give a 2001 I had a fighter fighting, and we fought Bobby Southworth. You know who he is? He was an Ultimate Fighter at one time. And I think it was we’re fighting a three round fight. And in the second round, he came back to the corner. And I looked in his eyes and he was just, it was just glazed over. And I was trying to talk to him and he wasn’t listening. And I just waved it off. I go, oh, we’re done. We’re done. I’m not sending them back out there. We get knocked out to get seriously hurt. You know, he was already he was already too much for him, you know. And I think there’s, there’s a disconnect between wanting to win so bad. or wanting to protect that human, that person, that friend, that student, protect them from themselves. Because I can tell you, a lot of these fires don’t ever stop a coach. Don’t stop, just let it go. Let it go. If you care about somebody, that’s really hard to do. It’s really hard to do like it was really hard for me to watch them not throw the towel in that last fight. Like as a coach, I’m like, dude, when he came to the corner you told him do Enzo Gari row it. That’s a wrap man. He was he wasn’t doing anything. He wasn’t improving what he was doing, you should have as it as a quote and this is the tough part, right? Because if you step in as a coach and call the fight off, the fire is gonna be managing. Maybe he leaves, you know, I would want that fight, but you call it so I’m going somewhere else because you don’t care about me when the reality is just the opposite. I cared so much about you that I realized was going Yes, there’s always at one shop or do you know, you guys both know from watching that fight that we just saw the chances of him knocking the other guy out was probably less than 1%. At this point. He had nothing on his hands, nothing on his legs. He had no he had no strength left. He was he was at a point where he’s only taking damage now. And how long do you let somebody go taking damage? You know in amateurs, they stopped a lot faster. Right? So Somebody gets rocked, they stop it, you know, and in boxing and kickboxing, if you get knocked down, you get a standing eight count. Well, MMA doesn’t do that. And I may let it go, you know, and I don’t know if it’s standing for standing count should be should be thought about maybe, you know, but, you know, no man’s like, What if he gets hurt and they jump on him and go for a choke or something or, you know, try and submit him, then it’s then it’s, you know, this is where the challenges are for the CTE stuff, because there’s a four ounce gloves are using, you know, right. And, and we won’t know really the effect of all these these fighters until, you know, five or 10 years,

George Stallworth 40:38
then it goes into. The next thing I want to ask you about was a lot of times, people we expect to see these blatant effects after a fighter who’s suffering from CTE or anything like that. But very often it’s not you don’t get to see that what’s really going on behind the scenes. Can you talk about maybe some of the the things that fighters go through in dealing with that You know, when the lights are off after everybody’s left the ring after everybody’s left the cage, and they’re at home, you know, what kind of things do they go through?

Arjan Carlos Moreno 41:08
I have a close, close friend who’s a student who got knocked out at an event that we want to bumps in that event. And he was he had three fires, or we won two bolts, and he got knocked out. Backstage while the show’s still going on. He’s asking me what time do I go up? Anyway, go up and I’m like, Dude, it’s over with about two seconds later. Hey, don’t you get ready? What time do I gotta go up? And I’m like, dude, fights over. We’re done. I told you got knocked out. Like, I got knocked down. Okay? I feel okay. I was like, okay, hey, when do I go up? Am I going up soon? I’m like, then they’re their brain becomes in this loop. You know, and it’s a scary thing to see somebody you care about. When they have when they’re their head being loopy and this is the this is the combat sport we’re in right? We all know this. Just accept this, you know, but you know, had taken him to the hospital and And then, you know, three hours later, he seems normal again. Now, you don’t remember anything that happened. You don’t remember the fight at all. It’s a black spot that they have in their members rest of their lives. And what I have noticed is that when somebody has gotten knocked out, and their brain hit because their brain hits the other wall inside the skull, right, that’s, that’s where the concussions come from. So once once that has been done, they’re more susceptible to get knocked out again. And and once you’ve had a few minutes, just like you barely touched the guy and they’re gonna because there’s nothing nothing holding together. It’s been Dan, he’s damaged now. You know, look it over and we just saw over him. I grew up watching over a man he was the Demolition Man in pride and he was freaking out. Dude, I love that guy use a beast. His knees were killing people back in the day, right? He got touched by a guy who supposedly hits pretty hard okay, but he barely got touched. And you saw what happened to him. And it wasn’t just this fight UFC fight before he got touched. And if I can forget he got touched. Mirko CRO cop, no different You know, what, once they’ve had a concussion like this, they’re more susceptible. And once you’ve had two or three, you’re gonna start seeing these fighters, you know, down the road. You know, we like chocolate Dell, but it’s hard to listen to them talk nowadays, right? You hear him talking. And it’s, it’s sad and scary times, where some points, he seems normal than the other points, it seems like, I don’t understand what you’re saying. You know, and I think we’re gonna find out here in the next, you know, six to 10 years, the real progression has happened from all these people getting concussions that you know, in between fighting because there’s been plenty of times, I’ve been watching the fight and the camera zooms in to listen to the corner talk. And I can see by looking at the fireman’s eyes that he’s already had a concussion. His eyes are glazed to a point where, you know, he’s just staring at the coach. He’s not interacting with the coach and he’s is ready to go. Because what fighters do, man they go, that’s only know that’s what they’re there for. And, you know, it’s, it’s gonna be interesting, you know, to see how that how that How our sport is going to evolve in the next, you know, 10 years with this stuff, because if you look at NFL and you look at all the things these are putting into place now because of concussions, MMA is gonna go to the same thing and they’re gonna it’s gonna have the same have the same issues, because what do they have when they’re done? What do these fighters have?

Ryan Smith 44:22
And there you have it. What a wonderful interview with with Coach Carlos, thank you so much for the time that you gave us. And all of the insight that you gave it was just an amazing hour and a half that we that he gave us. That was what a wonderful gift that was.

John Keyes 44:42
Indeed, I learned so much and he was he started back there when it was dawn. It was back there in the end of the very genesis of of MMA, so he likes it. He knows those hardcore guys like hotter and hens Oh hoists and God forbid if he knows Hickson he didn’t mention he didn’t know Dan Severn, those guys right there or not though. Yeah, those are manly man. I I yeah.

George Stallworth 45:15
You know, something I learned in talking to him was how it was referred to back then is in HB bar Yeah, I wasn’t familiar with that man.

John Keyes 45:25
Believe it or not the the phrase was coined and I was the King of the Cage six back in 96 I believe

Ryan Smith 45:35
I decided not to dispute anything you say since you got me on the lightning strike so I’m just gonna just Yes sir. You are the history book. You are the Encyclopedia of knowledge so I’m just gonna I’m not right.

George Stallworth 45:48
You’re dealing with a tech guy you know he could have immediately just gone out and created a website and and trolled you with it. Just that quick.

Ryan Smith 45:57
No, no Because I am also a tech guy, which means that I have gone and done my independent research on my own as well and verified that indeed. The Yeah, there it is. Florida is the highest frequency of lightning in the United States. I searched for myself so

John Keyes 46:19
you can just go to florida.gov about down.

Ryan Smith 46:21
You got you know getting getting back to the interview. Yeah, the thing that I mean, it really hit me hit me right in the heart listening to him talk about seeing the fighters when they’re when their eyes are glazed. And just saying no more. Sending a fighter out there when you know that his odds of winning, you know, your fighter, you know what the odds are that just sending your fighter out there when they’re hurt and they’re damaged and they’re not going to win the fight continuing the fight. just seems like it insult to injury at that point. And it made me feel good to know that there are people who put the health and safety of their friends. First. That it goes beyond just the winning and the losing and the and the machismo that comes along with being a fighter, that there’s something bigger than that. And you know, one of the things that if you go and watch the long form interview, he talks about how Muay Thai in specific terms has this tradition and these, you know, these familial things that you do where you’re not just a student anymore, you’re a part of the family. And the question becomes, could you see your could you keep sending your child out into a ring after you know that he’s been rocked that he is now concussed, that he is no longer able to defend himself? Yet the fight is still going on. And if you can’t, couldn’t send your child out? How could you this Send your student out there and that that I think is is I mean I’m paraphrasing but it hit me emotionally and you can tell that it did so you know thank you to coach for for spending that time


fight Island update.

George Stallworth 48:19
Rob for you go there. I saw something on the renji maybe we just hadn’t got to it yet but I just want to check and make sure Mike Perry Yeah, you know it

Ryan Smith 48:29
is on a run sheet. I was gonna I was gonna circle back around but since since since you since you brought it up, let’s let’s talk about it.

George Stallworth 48:36
Like, we’re talking about brain damage.

Ryan Smith 48:39
Yeah, that was going to be my segue, by the way, but you know, but so I’m glad you brought it up. Mike Perry said he is done with coaches. He only wants his girlfriend and maybe her friend in his corner for his next fight.

John Keyes 48:53
Mm hmm. And he does actual video of this people. Yes. is not hard to find. You could just what’s this boy problem?


that this this dude is I mean, you know, love them hate them or laugh at them. This is where it becomes dangerous. And I’m for one, okay, you got to have some sort of coach in your corner that can see the things that you don’t see while you’re in the middle of it.

George Stallworth 49:27
But I think Mike is is saying, Oh john is that he hasn’t had that coaches have failed him to some degree or something to that effect is what I get the point he’s making. So he feels like he’s better off by himself as a result.

John Keyes 49:41
So that sounds like that he is angry because he’s angry at his performance. And he’s finding somebody to blame which is something that you’re that that are john Carlos was talking about that, you know, that if you’re you feel like you’re Didn’t do do what you wanted for them. And I’m paraphrasing at this point, you didn’t do what you wanted for them. So I’m just gonna leave you. And I think that is that that can be in certain cases, there are coaches out there that do that we I can think of a couple of them right now, but I won’t mention names. But for the most part our most coaches that I’ve seen Mike Perry with, he was with he was with Greg Jackson. So at one point there, I don’t see a problem with that. I don’t see Greg Jackson doing dirty. Nevermind.

I’ll back down.

Ryan Smith 50:38
Listen, but the fact is, is that when he was with Greg Jackson, he was winning. Yeah, I don’t know what he’s done since then. But the fact is, is that Mike Perry style of fighting, is it I mean, it’s not super complex, or at least it doesn’t look complex to me. I mean, he’s really going in there to try to knock somebody heads off. And And the thing is, is Perhaps I would love to hear what his coach what his coaches have to say and what the game plans are when he goes into these fights because the amount of damage that Mike Perry takes in a fight, meet, remember when his nose was like, smashed down and over to the side, and yet he was still fighting and still trying to knock people’s heads off. Like, like it’s just not the style of fighting that really succeeds in today’s MMA world. And it’s that kind of bullying, you know, grimy kind of fighting that Diego Sanchez is known for, its the same style of fighting that, you know, some of these other fighters are known for and, and now we are, as coach said, multiple years removed from some of these big wars. And we’re starting to see the impact of those in the decision making that people like Diego Sanchez, who’s now got one guy This corner. Now you’ve got someone like Mike Perry, who wants his girlfriend who, I mean, maybe she has, you know, a steep background in MMA or some type of martial arts, but I don’t think so. So it’s a destructive type thing. It’s it’s, it’s a red flag that we need to start paying attention to. And the and the UFC really needs to start thinking through what is their long term strategy for taking care of these fighters who have given them their was given the UFC, literally their lives. The best part of their lives were the success of the sport.

John Keyes 52:42
This actually reminds me of big country, Roy Nelson when he when he first showed up on the Ultimate Fighter. He had no coach, but he had phenomenal talent. Come to find out he had an altercation with the lions den which was which wasn’t Group day was being led by Ken Shamrock. One of the first mixed martial art clubs. And he just had a falling out with me. He said, he said the same thing to platinum, Mike Perry was, excuse me, he eventually did get with the group with the team and I think it was a TT day got with and he started he started flourishing. And I think what what Mike Perry needs to do is saying, just shop around, try and find a team. Get with somebody don’t do this on your own because Roy Nelson was of just a few years, you know, if he didn’t make it in the Ultimate Fighter, he probably would be on regional circuits right now if even fighting. So, Mike Perry, if you see this out in the ether somewhere, find a coach. Find a real group. I brother, I want to see you be at your best. Find a real coach or real crew to run with. Your girlfriend is not gonna do it. Now, don’t do that. Don’t do unless your girlfriend is Cynthia rothrock or Chris Cyborg. Do not do that. Okay. That’s all I got to say about George.

George Stallworth 54:12
Speaking as a coach, man, my God didn’t do this on your own and see how that works out for you. You know, but you’re saying that you don’t need a coach, you don’t need someone gameplan It sounds like you don’t want a team either. So we’ll pull your sparring partner is gonna be who’s gonna hold mitts for you? You know what I’m saying? Who’s gonna do the things that that you’re saying you don’t need done. Vice versa. You’re not gonna have somebody in your corner there to stop it when things go too far. And Mike, we’ve seen it with you already. We’ve seen fights where you you walk away damaged and had you had someone in there who could give you proper guidance they made it may have saved you from some of that damage. We just had Carlos on talking about this man. He is real. The reason Anthony Smith is talking about he’s talking right now. I can’t help but think is CTE effector Mike Perry is CTE effector. Diego Sanchez. Diego Sanchez is that’s not even a question of whether or not CTE is effector. JOHN Jones? No, this erratic behavior coming from guys, is CTE. And the another one man So, you know, by all means guys can do what they want. You know, if you want to walk in without a coach, bless you. Wish you will. The only thing I can think is you’re making an excuse for why you’re not a title contender right now.

Ryan Smith 55:41
Mm hmm. That’s,

George Stallworth 55:42
that’s real coach. What you’re really saying is, I’m gonna be a journeyman. So

Ryan Smith 55:48
I don’t know where I don’t know on which coast, Mike Perry’s base, but if he’s, if he’s over in the California area codes, Carlos said, send them to me. Send them to me. There is Is go see coach Carlos he’ll he’ll tighten you up Hello quick

John Keyes 56:04
holiday boy you could straight

Ryan Smith 56:07
alright so fine I’ll update it’s real Dana White says is going to be ready by June we’re just a few days away from that he said in July he’s going to spend an entire month in July at fight Island so it’s real I hope it’s real let me just say that way I say this real hope is real

John Keyes 56:28
I think I called it when I said that international fight week was gonna happen on that island I will take credit for that and that’s that’s

Ryan Smith 56:35
that’s the goal that’s that’s definitely the goal. There’s crazy stuff going come coming out about what fights gonna look like on international fight week but we’re gonna we’re gonna talk about one of those fights in just a bit hidden Risa Hutto is out he they have scrubbed his name from the title on the website at the UFC. It is now a blank space where his name used to be over the band. Weight division, it is now a vacant title. So, Henderson who left he said, I’m happy with my career, I’m done with the sport. I want to walk away. I want to enjoy myself. I’m 33 years old. You know, it’s interesting. This all coincided with the fact that there was a female on this planet who was willing to look beyond the king of cringe. And, and that was enough for him his like, if she’s willing to stick with me to this. She’s the one. I’m paraphrasing though. He said since I was 11 years old, I’ve sacrificed my whole life to get where I’m at today, and I’m not going to let anybody take that from me. So I’m retiring tonight. I’m 33 years old. I’m happy with my career. Uncle Dana wants to thank you for everything. You’re the man. That’s what he said in the ring after the fight. His coach who originally said I don’t think he’s done. He’s coach came back a few weeks later and said, I think he’s done. So I think this is it. The last sign that Henry sudo is done is what? They take him out of the USADA pool right? Until they take him out of USADA pool

nicely done.

John Keyes 58:05
If anything, this sounds like the UFC was like oh, I’m glad he’s gone my rifle off you know that’s what it sounds like to me cuz I, cuz I think they’re supposed to take you out of the pool first and then or at least do it like right at the same time almost simultaneously but they scrubbed him quick

Ryan Smith 58:22
it was quick deuces um but you know I think that’s the thing is because I think the UFC does the the the lighter weight classes kind of dirty anyway though right you know but you know at the same time he talked about it but he didn’t really get that heads up to the to Dana White that he was going to do that either. You know it would have been a kind of a common courtesy to tell the the president of the promotion where you fight that you plan on retiring after this fight, win or lose?

George Stallworth 58:53
Yeah, just announced it online. Yeah. Live on their venue on top of the people

Ryan Smith 58:58
like Dana White Don’t like surprises.

George Stallworth 59:01
That’s like slapping dancing in the face. You know

Ryan Smith 59:03
it is and so i don’t i don’t blame them for being like, Okay, if you’re really done, then your name doesn’t exist anymore. We’re going to move forward, we’re going to find this a new champion, Peter Yon versus somebody, as Dana White said, speaking of champions, you know, whenever we’re talking about champions, that one four letter word comes up. And it’s the it’s gotten even worse because of this whole last dance, Michael Jordan documentary, 10 part documentary, everybody wants to talk about the goat of something. And so, you know, I feel like the go to basketball has been decided, we we could all kind of agreed, you know, there’s one or two names that you’re going to put in the goat of boxing, maybe hockey. You’ve got to go. But MMA is still very much disputed. And won, Conor McGregor decided that he was going to give his list of who the goat is. Y’all want to hear that? Did y’all see it?

John Keyes 1:00:06
All saw it? Yeah, go ahead.

Ryan Smith 1:00:09
Virgos number ones go. According to Conor McGregor, is Anderson Silva. tied for number one or a very close number two is Conor McGregor. Number three is George St. Pierre. Number four, or perhaps tied for number three is Jonny bones Jones, not listed Mighty Mouse, who says he had limited competition, and he lost his fight against Dominick Cruz, which is revisionist history because he fought Dominick Cruz before he won the 125 pound title. And he was a part time fighter when he fought for the title. That’s how great dominant Demetrius Johnson is. But you know, I’m a fan. person you did not put on the list 28 know how big murder Madoff, so I feel like Conor McGregor’s list of goats is a bit skewed. Just a bit, you don’t have hobbies

George Stallworth 1:01:21
I like that he put points into make is to show his reasoning behind it, though, like some of the points that he makes. I do like where he was going, other than the fact that he really put himself at number

Ryan Smith 1:01:33
tied for number five or number

one right? That people did not like it, namely one, Michael, the count Bisping were Conor McGregor slided him a couple of times, calling him you know, one eyed Michael Bisping. Michael Bisping responded, well, this one eyed fighter you speak of actually beat your number one, and he defended his belt so your logic doesn’t actually hold up. So anyway, have a good day. JOHN Jones actually responded, and john Jones said, and still try that one first lad. Because Conor McGregor, he’s won two titles, but he’s never defended the UFC title. So how you gonna be the goat when you’ve never even defended a title and there’s fighters all around you on that list that you have that have defended the title over and over and over again. Every single one of those people on that list have in the title at least, like seven or eight times, maybe even more, I know. I was it 10 for Anderson Silva, you know, something like that, that john Jones doesn’t have consecutive, but he’s got like 13 title defenses or 13 title fights, something like a

John Keyes 1:02:49
14 title defenses for john john GSP has 13 and

Ryan Smith 1:02:57
you know, but then again, I’m not I’m not gonna dispute you sir. Because I was wrong. It’s okay. I have no been wrong in you have proven me at lightning strikes lightning on one lightning strike twice.

John Keyes 1:03:13
Fuck that like that though I you might be right and titled fights. fights,

Ryan Smith 1:03:18
right? Yeah. I’m Connor versus we’re on Connor Connor has a shot though at history. Because remember the fight that we really wanted to see was tomorrow, newsman versus Jorge monster doll. But Jorge Maspeth also started talking trash about running things back with Nick Nadya’s, Nate Diaz. And so with no one to fight, you know, Ollie Abdelaziz is like, hey, Connor, do you want to shout out the 170 title. Now, I don’t know if this is real. But that could be the fight tight that’s gonna be the title fight that you See at international fight week.

John Keyes 1:04:02
That would be the craziest. That’s the craziest lob I’ve ever heard.

Okay, you

don’t set your boy up like that unless you absolutely know your boy is gonna run through. All right.

Ryan Smith 1:04:15
Tomorrow’s is a 170 guy. That means he cuts to 170 exact Connor Connor maybe walks around 175

John Keyes 1:04:27
but it’s the whole fact

Ryan Smith 1:04:29
that that he that he couldn’t get broke.

John Keyes 1:04:33
I don’t know I can say that he does get broken. I thought I thought Justin was going to be you know, crying about how he got his butt kicked. But Justin didn’t get his butt kicked.

Ryan Smith 1:04:44
But But Justin is a 150 fiber fiber

George Stallworth 1:04:49
weight division. I kind of thought it 170 but he fought 150 fibers who were at Wednesday, right? Tomorrow’s man probably walks around 212 pounds

and with

John Keyes 1:05:06
my point being is I don’t want this massive juggernaut that is tomorrow’s men go in there and fight Connor and Connor beats him because not only do I have to hear him scream proper 12 and on the down the Triple C. Okay, but he’s never gonna defend that title at those the welterweight division and to all sorts of disarray. Again.

George Stallworth 1:05:33
I get what you’re saying, but the I mean, what’s the likelihood in a fight is it’s not very likely. We’ll probably love to make that fight but I don’t really see that is the money style fight, other than the fact that it’s an opportunity for Canada to win three belts. There’s not really a history of drama between Comoro and Connor. There is between Ali Abdul Aziz real fight we all know is going to be a rematch with cubby At some point that’s that’s gonna be the money fight. I’m guessing Ali is is just chomping at the bit because he likes to step up for his fighters and so as a as a you know a do over for cubby but what not to do over but as a shout out for cubby because he can’t fight right now he’s like, Well, you know what? I got my 170 champ over here. Once you take a crack at him, Connor McNuggets

Ryan Smith 1:06:25
I don’t know.

John Keyes 1:06:26
He’s such a Cobra Kai right now it’s not even funny.

Ryan Smith 1:06:30
But all I know is that this this is not a fight the Conor wants a can’t be he you know, he can talk as much slack as he wants about being able to go up to 170 but that’s not a legitimate that it’s not a legitimate thing. He would get broken. So anyway. So there we go. June 13. A couple of couple quick hits June 13 baby face below Ryan Benoit is on the card for June 13 gonna be facing Tyson nom. Now I know it has been a while, but I know that it’s not pronounced that way. But he is he’s a hometown hero for us. So shout out to Ryan Benoit. To get on that car, we’re gonna be rooting for you. June 13.

George Stallworth 1:07:22
You didn’t know Ryan’s one of my training partners. He’s a teammate of mine since I see Ryan on a regular basis, so we would just say practice all last week. All right. I’m prepping for these fights that are coming up. He He’s been talking about it with us for a minute. So I’m very excited for this fight. I’m hoping these guys come on come out and put on a great show. This is a 125 pound fight. So you know these guys love to get with it real quick in action is IQ in 125 division. So not only that, once Wi Fi built is up for grabs, so this is a chance for Ryan to move up. Place himself as a real contender in that division. So we’ll see what happens, man.

Ryan Smith 1:08:06
All right, well, we’ll be rooting for him for sure. You know once once we get closer to that fight, we’ll definitely make that pick for sure show show our solidarity behind him. Tai Chi master get starch. Have you seen the video?

George Stallworth 1:08:21
I have seen this man. It’s

John Keyes 1:08:23
a recycle. I thought

Ryan Smith 1:08:24
it was a recycled tube. But no, it’s not the same. There’s so there’s a there’s a famous Chinese MMA fighter who’s going around basically debunking all of the Chinese martial art grandmasters and embarrassing them and so much that is in China, there’s something called your your your social capital, there’s a there’s a rating that you get. And as you do things that are not respected by the government or things like that, then you lose your rating and you lose access to resources in the society. His rating is so low he can’t travel in public transportation. But this isn’t the guy that this isn’t the guy in the video. He it’s this. It’s kind of like a hobbyist it says a hobbyist. So basically a weekend warrior who trains in in some type of a martial art fights this Tai Chi Grandmaster. It’s not pretty dude gets knocked out and he is light as a feather stiff as a board.

John Keyes 1:09:30
See, my problem with this is that we have a guy that’s 20 years. That’s, that’s the 69 he says 20 at least 20 years. He’s in his 40s and a 30. Why can I not get a Tai Chi master in his 40s or at least a Tai Chi, a Tai Chi practitioner that is the same age as the practice as his opponent and let them go for it again

George Stallworth 1:09:58
because the 30 year old time practitioner is not the one out there boasting saying that he can stop a bullet with his two fingers hold on you get what I’m saying? These guys are debunking these these martial artists who are out there making these exuberant claims and that really bring I guess a bad light on on traditional martial arts we’ve all seen it before man. Oh hell you probably met some of these guys back in the day when you were younger yourself these guys who walked around with the karate geese on in their black belt showing things or whatever and oh only train or you know it’s some Taekwondo school and they got your black belt and you know two days or whatever the case may be man, we don’t get me wrong. I’m sad to see stuff like this go up on video. Yeah, but we all know there’s this. There’s this Instagram account called make dojo life or something today we see it on display there. All the time and don’t get me wrong. I have the greatest respect for martial artists in general, all around no matter what martial art you practice because I know what it’s like to go through and put yourself through a regimen that is required to become a specialist at whatever martial art you’re in. But vice versa, don’t take just because you become a, I guess, adept at whatever that martial art is and take it to the next level and start spitting out fake stuff. You know how you can stop bullets or, you know, you can take down any MMA fighter or your martial art is so much better than any other martial art out there. Because I promise you that you know, there’s somebody in your weight division, somebody in your skill level, who will make you eat those words. So one windless said Tai Chi master had a bad day. He’s ready now. I don’t think he could ever be as I was watching it. He not he was never ready. He was never ready. Never Be ready.

Ryan Smith 1:12:06
No, no,

John Keyes 1:12:07
not ready. wasn’t ready. He needs some milk. Is that what he

Ryan Smith 1:12:14
needs? He needs. He needs a coach in his corner. Tell him Don’t do this. This is for you, Mike but Mike Perry, don’t be the Don’t be a 69 year old Tai Chi coach. He massive starched UFC 250 preview, Amanda Nunez versus Felicia Spencer. They’ve announced the fights on the card they do not have the order yet. But there’s a lot of people bad mouth in this card. You know the UFC, put a lot of their greatest fighters on this on that week of on that week of fighting. That, you know, this is kind of that transition card where you got a lot of fighters that we as MMA fans like to see, but it’s it doesn’t have the broad appeal for people who are more casual fans of the of the sport but going through the list real quick Amanda Nunez versus Felicia Spencer the headliners. Looks like the CO main event it’s gonna be happier. I saw Sal versus Cody Gar Brant, which I’m glad to see Cody’s coming back. I think he’s going down a weight class though. Our Jemaine Sterling versus Corey San Hagan that should be a number one title eliminator fight right there. But you see it for mega versus Alex Perez Neil Magnus back against Anthony Rocco. Martin. Sugar. Sean O’Malley versus Eddie weinland. Haven’t heard that name in a long time.

John Keyes 1:13:34
I know that’s what I was looking at you. I’m like I will watch that fight. I will personally watch

Ryan Smith 1:13:40
the Battle of the afros. Alex caseros versus chase Hooper chase Hooper, you might remember is that young up and coming fighter who look like he’s a you know 125 pound beanpole with a with a with a with a Afro. chokin folks out Keep your eye on chase hooker. That guy Hooper chase Hooper. That’s the guy to watch Alonzo minnifield versus Devin Clark. He and hi Nish versus Gerald mirror shark and Charles bird versus Maki Pilato, so that’s 250 but we got a fight card coming up this weekend. UFC on ESPN nine Woodley vs. Burns. This is the fight card.

All right, Dana White promised us that we were going to have a fight card on May 30. May 30 is this weekend it’s gonna be at the UFC Apex in Las Vegas, Nevada, for UFC on ESPN nine Woodley vs. Burns There are five fights on the card, the Kinsey Dern versus Hannah cyphers. Roosevelt Roberts versus Brock Weaver, someone you may know George, Kevin Holland versus David Rodriguez, laboy Ivana versus a gusto Sekai, and then the main event of the evening Tice Tyron Woodley versus Gilbert burns. Let’s make two picks got to make the pick for Kevin Holland. He’s a hometown hero. Let’s go ahead and make that pick who you got George Kevin Holland versus Daniel Rodriguez.

George Stallworth 1:15:21
My man Kevin, man, you know he’s doing like a What is this? a two week three week turnaround on this fight. He just bought on the last set of fights. He sure did. Oh, hey, go get it man. I think he had what the fight was what 40 seconds

Ryan Smith 1:15:35
40 something seconds. Yeah.

George Stallworth 1:15:37
Yeah, so quick turnaround for Kevin man. Absolutely. Go get it.

Ryan Smith 1:15:42
All right, john.

John Keyes 1:15:43
Hey, they said fighters that’s that stay fighting and stay healthy with with quick turnarounds like that. They usually went Kevin Hall and good luck, man. All right.

Ryan Smith 1:15:51
Well, you know, we are all behind you Kevin Holland. I got you as Kevin

George Stallworth 1:15:58
right. So he’s Fighting this one at 170. You know, he actually came into the UFC at 185 he fought Tiago Santos. Wow.

John Keyes 1:16:07
Yeah. Wow.

George Stallworth 1:16:08
And gave him problems too.

Ryan Smith 1:16:11
Yeah, that was a late late fight replacement too, wasn’t it?

Yes. Wow. Yes. Yes, that’s right.

No, he was a terrible Santos that that was 205.

George Stallworth 1:16:21
Yes. He thought Thiago Santos. That’s

Ryan Smith 1:16:25
crazy. My hater.

George Stallworth 1:16:26
I think he fought him at 185. Okay,

Ryan Smith 1:16:28
maybe 185 But still, that was an easy fight. Yeah, for Santos.

George Stallworth 1:16:34
No, it was not an easy fight. Um,


said they’ll say that Kevin was talking to them while they were on the ground. And the guy was throwing punches at him and he said Kevin was talking to him saying stuff like, Don’t hit me so hard man, and then he would throw an elbow. Kevin is no fun talking to his fight Smash.

John Keyes 1:16:57
I can appreciate a fighter like that.

Ryan Smith 1:17:00
Alright, let’s make our main event pick Tyron Woodley versus Gilbert burns. JOHN, who you got.

John Keyes 1:17:08
I’m gonna go with Tyrone Woodley. He’s talked the game. It’s time for him to walk the game now, George,

George Stallworth 1:17:16
man, I don’t know, john.

John Keyes 1:17:18
Hey man, you talk this much. You talk as much as you have for as long as you better go on everything and I do a one hitter quitter. All right, for real

George Stallworth 1:17:27
Yo, but

a very, very game opponent, man. Oh, I know.

John Keyes 1:17:34
Very, very game. I know.

George Stallworth 1:17:36
Not only that tyrants coming off of a loss to tomorrow. If I was Tyra’s coach, if I was Duke, and whoever else is in Tyson’s corner right now, I’m like, Can we get a tune up fight somewhere you know, fight you know somebody you know? Cuz cuz can we fight somebody else coming off of a lawsuit lease,

John Keyes 1:17:56
Tara and I said, I’ll fight anybody. Okay, that’s Just a bad night. I don’t know who that cat is. So I’m coming back. I’m fighting caliber. Apparently this caliber is 357 You know, it is what it is.

Ryan Smith 1:18:15
Okay, when I saw this, I was like, I like Tyron Woodley, you know, I don’t have anything bad to say about his fighting ability. But Gilbert burns. The Gilbert burns. Is Damien Maya if Damien Maya could strike?

George Stallworth 1:18:31
Yeah. Yes. Does Vegas have have is the

Ryan Smith 1:18:35
I don’t have I don’t have I don’t have the odds in front of me. I’m sure they have Tyron Woodley, because, you know, Tyron Woodley is a former champ, you know, and all these kind of things. You know, he’s got the five, five round experience and all that kind of stuff. Gilbert burns is a dynamic fighter. He can take this fight on to the ground, he can take it standing up. I think that Diversity of what he can do is going to give Tyron Woodley some fits. I got Gilbert burns in this fight.

George Stallworth 1:19:08
I probably wrote with Gilbert as well. We’re seeing this all throughout MMA man. It’s almost like a change, you

Ryan Smith 1:19:13
know, changing of the guard.

George Stallworth 1:19:15
There are these guys just on the cusp of not too old or anything like that. They’re still in their primes. But we’re seeing these new fighters who have come along and they didn’t just train in one art and then transition into MMA these guys came up as total mixed martial artists from day one they were training, wrestling, jujitsu, boxing, Muay Thai, and any other martial art that they may have in their background. And it has completely revolutionized what we see in MMA today. And you know, who started that trend right. Rory MacDonald. Yeah. Yeah,

John Keyes 1:19:52
yeah. But and it works. I mean, this is this is the evolution. We have a lot of great champions to thank for for doing that. And so now I’ve lost I think are let the last. The last of the old guard that I can think of is john Jones and john Jones is starting to run a little scared. Let’s put it out there. And just after looking at a verdict the it looks like that Tyron Woodley is the favorite right now it’s a 150 Gilbert burns is a three fit is a 350 underdog

Ryan Smith 1:20:29
that’s the biggest three to one. Yeah, so yeah, I like them are gonna

George Stallworth 1:20:35
be a lot of money on those Gilbert bits. Somebody getting paid.

Ryan Smith 1:20:39
I like it. I like that. Then again, don’t listen to me cuz I have known they’ve been wrong about picking fights. So you know, but George said so it’s probably true. Anyway.

George Stallworth 1:20:53
I’m going with I’ve just seen the trend lately, man, a lot of our fighters who you know they’re not over the hill by now. means but they’re, they’re just, they’re at that point in their careers where there’s there really is a changing of the guard coming through. And you have to recognize that and realize what’s taking place. Look through all your champions in divisions right now, man, and you’ve seen all these, Henry saludo 145 is a Vulcan auskey now 155 is could be, I wouldn’t call him necessarily one of the newer guys. But okay. 170 right now tomorrow, definitely, you know, I’m 185 right now. This is Yeah. Easy. Did it all do out here, man. JOHN Jones is still at 205. That’s understandable. And our heavyweight champ right now is Steve Bay. But look at who you got sitting in the wind Francis in Ghana. Oh,

yeah, well, conda forever. Oh.

Ryan Smith 1:21:53
This is your cultural awareness. Woman. Oh, I can’t do it. He was here. He could do it. But I tried. So, so yeah, I mean, there is there, there seems to be a changing of the guard, perhaps it’s not 2020 perhaps it’s 2021 when we see the full shift of fighters to this new breed of fighter, because the thing is, is that, you know, the evolution of the sport, I think is gaining momentum such that now it’s harder to stay at the top of your game for longer because there’s more people who can do what you do. JOHN Jones used to be heavy, you know, head and shoulders above everybody. Now he’s only up to his ears, you know, so, so, in a year’s time, it may not be Dominic rez, and maybe the guy who comes after Dominic rez, but that’s gonna be, you know, the person that that john Jones is not going to be able to respond to. You know, that’s the person you know, Gilbert burns may be the guy that gives Kemal Roseman his first loss Have a round you know he may be the first person to beat tomorrow’s man. So it’s it’s it’s it’s coming and that’s what makes the sport exciting and it for people who are just looking at dipping your toe This is a great time to start getting into a sport like this because we are seeing these new fighters that we don’t know like sugar Sean on my family this got a lot of excitement coming up. He is he is gonna be one of those new names that could be the next title holder. He could be the next Conor McGregor. We don’t know it’s worth watching balls on social media on Instagram I’m at combat sports talk.

John Keyes 1:23:40
I’m at keys to victory and as keys with the E FF

George Stallworth 1:23:45
at Darkside underscore MMA underscore on Instagram me.

Ryan Smith 1:23:50
You can find everything on our website at www. combat sports talk comm if you’re interested and the interview with our john Carlos Moreno are the entire interview will be posted on our website tomorrow. But you can go to YouTube today and see the rest of the interview. It was a phenomenal, phenomenal interview. Shout out to MMA junkie MMA fighting in May mania, bloody elbow and the intelligent defense discussion group on Facebook. That’s where we get a lot of our headlines and a lot of the discussions that we have here, start over there, and all the other side’s providing us the stories that we use on the show once again. Our gratitude goes out to coach Carlos Moreno and on behalf of john Key’s and George Stallworth, I’m Ryan Smith, reminding you to keep your hands up, your chin tucked, and throw bombs. We’ll catch you next time.

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