Episode 154 – UFC Vegas 17: The Last Show of 2020

December 22, 2020 by No Comments

In our final show of 2020, we are going to recap UFC Vegas 17: Thompson vs. Neal from last Saturday Night.  We’ll talk about Canelo Alvarez’s unification of the Super Middleweight Belt, Jake Paul’s harassment of Conor McGregor, and Dana White’s victory over a naysaying media.  

Combat Sports Talk will return January 11, 2021.


Ryan Smith 0:01
Hey there fight fans. Don’t forget to like, share and subscribe. This episode of combat sports talk.

Welcome to combat sports talk a podcast dedicated to UFC and bellator discussion, the MMA community and combat sports in general. I’m your host Ryan Smith. And joining me this week is the man with the keys to victory. JOHN keys and collect g Casey Onyebuchi. How are you guys doing tonight? Man? We don’t good I’m doing good. How you doing? Casey?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 0:44
I am feeling fantastic. I missed the show last week because of my birthday cuz y’all know how I do happy

Thank you very much. So now I’m just super excited to do what I love doing which is hanging out with the guys talking about what’s going sports

Unknown Speaker 0:51
Yeah, Happy birthday.

John Keyes 1:03
Yeah, I mean absolutely. You know, I’m just here tonight it you know, just hitting here. Ready to talk about White Castle? Yeah. Am I lucky? You know quest for it.

Ryan Smith 1:14
Alright, so so let’s see here. This is john Key’s random fact of the day.

John Keyes 1:22
So if y’all don’t know I’m lucky for like the past month or so. I’ve been on a quest for white castles. Alright, cuz you know why can’t some that I’ve always got eight as a kid in Kentucky. Okay. And when I came back when I was going to college UK I was eating like castles get a sack a tan, a big red trench right. And it’s it’s funny because there’s there’s only like two locations west of the Mississippi. All right for why council one is in Las Vegas. Vegas when and they did food trucks out there to test that area to find out if it was worth it or not. It shut down district both times. They said that they sold for over almost a half a million burgers. I’m sorry, slide is in amount in a matter of six hours. Okay, unheard of. So yeah, they’re like yeah, we’ll go ahead and put a white cast out there. And it went crazy. It’s still out there today. So if you’re on the strip, though that to the other end towards the stratosphere, get your get your sec attend. The other place is in Arizona, and it ran out of food the first day when they opened it up. Baylor lead they couldn’t keep it in there. So why castles? The whole point of Whitechapel? It’s It was created it is the modern. It built the modern formula for fast food and franchise today. It was created back in 19. Like 1919 I believe. And it’s basically your basic slider. Not fried. It’s grilled. It’s it’s pretty much a nutritional burger. Okay, they the the CEO at the time had a health study done on it. Well a guy ate nothing but why castles and water for 13 weeks came out healthy. Okay, it was later brought back up on Instagram. And it like tripled their. their, their revenues for like, almost 10 years based off of that. Um, let’s see here. What are the beautiful things I can say about it? always eat white castles with big red. Nothing else. I have bigger fish to fry. sacristan. Don’t don’t do diet drinks with that. That’s just wrong with me here right now. It’s

Kelechi Onyebuchi 3:40
the unchecked false flat. false information out there. Big Red is the ultimate side. White Castle. Are you kidding me? Everybody knows

John Keyes 3:51
what’s gonna drink.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 3:52
Everyone who’s eating White Castle is also drinking. trashcan punch. Let’s just be honest.

Ryan Smith 4:00
Let me just say this. The reason why the reason why I’m calling this this whole White Castle trivia trivia thing bogus. is because we know here we go. You’re ready. We know that big red is a Texas drink made just down the road in Waco, Texas. One

John Keyes 4:22
now. Okay, okay, facts.

Ryan Smith 4:24
Nobody on the East Coast even knows what big red is.

Unknown Speaker 4:30
All the facts. Not

John Keyes 4:31
now that barely even

Ryan Smith 4:32
have Dr. Pepper on the East Coast for our fans out there on the east. Y’all know that? It’s all faygo with Pepsi that’s why

John Keyes 4:40
I’m drinking. Red pop. Okay, is there is their version of Big Red in a big red.

Ryan Smith 4:47
Okay, do not suddenly the name of big red and black calling it fago let me just say that right now. I am a boy. That’s how I know that you are not you are not So man, you are you are Kentucky in because you just mixed up fago and big red in the same sentence. You. That’s right.

John Keyes 5:13
Okay, so we can have the Battle of the three armies right in front of my yard. Okay, there you go on one side, your big red, your big red Texans on the other side and me in the middle of defending my castle. We could do that. Okay, we could do that. I’m a connoisseur of food. So I do appreciate it more than me, buddy. Any asset like this. All right. I love the grant. I’m a naturalized Texan. I stay and I’ll eat white castles with it. I will smash a like I’ve got like eight White Castle and smash it down to two burgers and eat it. Okay. That’s alright, you’re not you can make it as a Thanksgiving dressing too.

Ryan Smith 6:11
We are Alright, there we go. That was that was your john keys random fact of the day. I think we’re all warmed up and ready to go. It is time to talk about UFC 17 Thompson versus Neil. from Saturday December 19 2020 to UFC Apex Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada. This is the official decision.

Alright, this is the official decision. This is the last card of the year. Now we remember going back to February and March, right when the coronavirus pandemic began. The UFC was in dire straits, they were canceling shows. They they were behind the ball to be able to make that big paycheck that they needed from ESPN, which was I think 10s of millions of dollars that they were that they were owed, if they could make their number of shows. And so Dana White, and we’ll talk about this later on in the show. But Dana White set a mission that he was going to deliver every one of the shows he promised ESPN, if he had to go back to back week to week putting shows on the route the rest of the year, it seemed like a Herculean effort. And here we are at the end of the year, UFC Vegas 17 Thompson versus Neil, the last show of the year, the UFC, did it and they did it in fine fashion, with six fights on the car. The first one of the night was Alex moranto. Versus Anthony Pettis, Anthony Pettis, of course was in the last fight of his contract. And so you know, the question was, number one, was he going to win this fight because we have seen the old guard starting to lose to kind of that next crop of young, exciting fighters. And if he did lose, was he going to be a name that was on that list of 60. Now, I was talking to someone in a in a, in a in a UFC discussion board, and they were saying they’re running a Deadpool right now for names on the UFC roster that are going to be on that list of 60. Anthony Pettis, I thought was a possible name that might be on that list if he did not win that fight. But he did. He pulled it out, defeating Alex moranto via unanimous decision 2928 on all three cards, ensuring or potentially right now ensuring that he has a good shot at staying on the UFC roster and possibly moving down to lightweight to get his fight back with Tony Ferguson.

John Keyes 8:58
I’m glad you said potentially, I because I do. But I don’t think his spot from the 60 has been removed. Assuredly, I think he still may be on that spot.

Ryan Smith 9:10
You know, and he talked about the fact No, go ahead.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 9:14
Yeah, it’s just it’s tough for me to say that he should be gone because even in his restructuring his game, he’s got a couple of good wins in there. And some decent fights so truly on the backside of his career, but I mean, crazier things.

John Keyes 9:30
I don’t want the man to go but I understand if they do. All right. I think I always like to watch a Pez fight it, you know, in his prime, I do think he’s kind of sliding down. He’s on a downward slope. So he is of sliding over to, let’s say, a different American five promotion that you know, likes to play like to have their fights casinos and such like that, I would not be upset.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 10:06
The thing I get with Anthony Pettis is like that guy.

The way that he wins, like he does have such an impressive resume. And I think what differentiates him between like the old guard who’s starting to lose, and the old guard who can still stay in, in a competitive situation is Anthony Pettis has never been known as a slow starter. And I think that is the key differentiator between what’s popular in the UFC now and what’s winning versus what was happening. So Anthony style really still fits with the direction of the UFC, and I think he’s gonna still be able to pull in a lot of good wins. And I would, I would have to assume that the UFC brass sees that as well.

Ryan Smith 10:49
Well, you know, the one thing that Anthony Pettis did say is the fact that it’s uncertain. It’s a lot of volatility right now. He has no idea what the future holds the UFC may not choose to make that next offer that he’s going to want to sign on and, and, and, and keep on because that’s the other thing too. Dana White said that this number of 60 isn’t necessarily because everybody’s losing or everybody’s being overrun. It’s a numbers game because they’ve got this great crop of fighters that they’ve seen in the Dana White Tuesday contender series. And you can only have so many fighters on the roster, because you’ve got to the UFC has to provide three fights per year per fighter and you just run out of slots. So they’re starting to make these this cut of 60. So that they have room to be able to make sure these fighters are getting these fights. So Anthony Pettis, I’m hoping that he isn’t on that list of 60 because you’re right. He does make for some competitive fights. But he’s been his career has been on in the UFC and WEC for 10 years. And the it’s questionable if he can make a run at a title definitely not at one at 170 Can he make a run at 155 given the fact that we might be seeing how even America met off vacating that title?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 12:11
Is it about making a run or is it about bringing eyeballs to the sport?

Ryan Smith 12:17
I think I don’t think I don’t know that we can we can make a decision between the two I don’t think it’s an either or I think it you have to be able to make a run. That’s what keeps me as a fighter wanting to stay in the promotion. And the promotion wants me because I bring eyeballs so I think that it’s it’s both and

Unknown Speaker 12:37

Ryan Smith 12:38
Alright, in the next Fight of the Night Greg Hardy, based off against Marchant our bura and anti bird defeated hardy via TKO at 431 and round two now this is if George g money Stallworth was here right now. I would be playing the crow sound because john You and I were on on Greg hardy The only person who picked the march anti Bula type type euro type euro is is a is George but he’s not here. So he doesn’t get the satisfaction of hearing us eat that crow.

John Keyes 13:16
So he said that the button is broken when it comes to George George when

Ryan Smith 13:22
no George did not declare cholesky as his surrogate and so therefore we do not have to push the button galvanized style

Kelechi Onyebuchi 13:33
look to be honest though, I have been so on this Greg hardy hype train in a way that doesn’t make sense because I know he needs more time to to perfect his game, but it’s just hard to see that guy lose like he’s just been so dominant and every one of his fights

Ryan Smith 13:50
Yeah, well that’s the thing. Dude came out. Round number one he was whooping Marston time bureau that this this fight really shouldn’t have gone past the first round he just couldn’t put him away and yeah in so much as it couldn’t put him away marching tabular, came back and was like, Ah, I’m not gonna be able to stand with this dude. Let me see what happens if I take him down. And he took Greg hardy down and Greg hardy has not built that part of his game and So to your point, Collette he, he still needs to marinate. This dude has eight bytes and he’s fighting mid tier heavyweights right now. And he just not a complete fighter yet. And so, the great thing is, is he’s a protege of Rashad Evans, Rashad Evans. I think he’s got the I think he knows how to wrestle. Somebody told me that.

John Keyes 14:40
Yeah, a little bit. He knows how to be on the ground a little bit, but it was a smart plan by Marcia. Hey, this dude hit too hard. Let me show this wrestling game. Let me show this ground game for a second. took him down and hey, he did it. not mad at the guy. Right, you know, Greg hardy type train. Just let it be now. I’m still there. I go anywhere I want to see this guy, you know, really mature. So for the next couple of months because I think it you know, our next administration might be locking it down for 100 days. I think somebody needs to be in the gym roll it.

Unknown Speaker 15:13

Ryan Smith 15:14
I think that’s I think that’s a good thing. I’m not on the Grant Cardone type train but at the same time, I’m not picking against that dude. He is super strong. He is you know, he’s, he’s not there yet. Like, I’m not gonna be

Kelechi Onyebuchi 15:31
my friend.

Ryan Smith 15:32
I’m just not picking against him like Yes, he’s

John Keyes 15:36
already he separated conscious from bodies up until up until Saturday. Okay, he was

Ryan Smith 15:42
very well did it almost did it again on Saturday. Yeah, you know, but but he’s not a complete fighter yet. I don’t think that he’s got all the tools yet. You know, I think when you start getting up to your stronger bigger fighters, I don’t know that that sheer power advantage that he has is something that’s going to be such a big differentiator once you get up to higher tier talent

John Keyes 16:10
or something like that. That’s how it can be you know, they got the Musa next that you know,

Ryan Smith 16:17
I don’t know. Let you the way you coffee man. I don’t know you might have the Rona

John Keyes 16:22

Ryan Smith 16:28
Francis in Ghana, but in a way you prove my point. Greg hardy standing with Francis in Ghana, Greg hardy is not going to have that shear strength advantage. Greg hardy versus you know someone like Curtis blades not going to have that shear strength advantage. He is going to end up giving up that wrestling though and you know, all of that speed all that power that Greg hardy has on this mid to lower tier talent is going to be neutralized by some of these more dynamic fighters so I just I’m not ready to be on the hype train yet but I am definitely respect who he is and what he’s been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time next Fight of the Night Marlin my haste versus Rob font now Rob font was coming off of a an injury that was had him out for a year he basically had his ACL reconstructed, came back against number three in the division Marlin mahesana monomer haste was formerly number one in the division you know ended up you know losing his fight and then basically coming down to number three and and it was basically looking like it was gonna be a tune up fight to get him back in title contention. Rob font came out of nowhere throwing all kinds of just just power bombs like whenever you talk about cold you know, cholesky we talked about throwing bombs Rob font was just like lightened Marlin mo haze up mama Hayes could not get this fight on the ground and at 347 in round number one he couldn’t keep it on the ground he was able to get it to the ground he just couldn’t couldn’t keep it on the ground. Um, and Marlin my haste lost by knockout like devastating knockout to rob flaunt 347 around number one

Kelechi Onyebuchi 18:23
I really feel like it’s moments like this where the UFC should have a stronger partnership with video game designers and I want to hear finish him at least gearing the repo

John Keyes 18:37
Yeah, I agree with that i that you know they should have somebody should have a you know, Joe Rogan should really get in there and say just the most off the wall things on the ea UFC. I quit quit the attain Joe, your comedian, man. You know, I know what you got. I know what I’ve seen. He is a comedian. He does have some funny things to say. So you know, our dc dc to go in there and say, Oh my god, are you right? It needs to happen.

Ryan Smith 19:07
But you know, maybe you get maybe you get Mortal Kombat to have a sponsorship package. When if there’s a mortal kombat 12 that comes out or something like that. And so that way, what is happening is, you know, this replay was brought to you by Mortal Kombat. Finish him and then you watch the replay. You know

Kelechi Onyebuchi 19:28
why I’ve always believed this show would be a better marketing team for the UFC than what they currently have in place.

Ryan Smith 19:35
I’m just saying, you know, look, look us up you. Listen, this is we should make our pitch now. And so for our fans out there who listening, put us out, you know, put us on Twitter, talk to these fighters for us and tell them number one, if you’re going to have a Twitter beef, come and talk to us. You want to market a fighter. Come and talk to us. You want some morals and ethics about fighting and trash talking. Go and talk to

John Keyes 19:58
me Talk to me. Okay. Talk to me because I legitimize Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship before the years out, y’all give me give me 15 minutes. I’ll give you I’ll

Ryan Smith 20:11
give you 15 minutes you’ll save them 15%

Unknown Speaker 20:14
I’m exactly

Ryan Smith 20:16
so so yes, we have ideas and we are willing to travel Vegas is not that far a flight for any of us. So we can we can make this happen. Um I do have to do this though because all of us were on Marlin the haze. Rob font, put him away in the first round.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 20:40
I was a team font from get go

Ryan Smith 20:42
What? No, no, no, you go there you let the record show that you did not make a selection for this card. So therefore you did not get to claim the title of Nostradamus.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 21:00
I felt it in my heart go. Okay. That counts for something.

Ryan Smith 21:05
In the next Fight of the Night. Michael Pettit. Well, I guess it’s Michelle Panetta defeated chaos Williams via unanimous decision. 2928 on all three cards. You know, this is one of those fights where all of us were looking at chaos Williams and saying, if he’s too successful, too soon, he’s getting out of his depth. This is gonna be that that that one fight for Michelle preheader. That is going to show chaos. How far away he is from being great. And that did not happen. Chaos. William stood in the pocket. I mean, Michelle pinhead. I threw everything he had at chaos Williams and chaos was not going away. There were moments where chaos look like he might have even gotten close to finishing that fight. You know, I would love to hear what coach says about chaos Williams after seeing his performance on Saturday night. Unfortunately, he’s not there. If he comes in the end of the show. I will come back and ask him that because at the end of the day, I was surprised that chaos Williams performed as well as he did, given his short tenure in the UFC and the level of competition that he was facing on Saturday night. Well done chaos. Leo’s All right. In the CO main event of the evening, Josie Aldo, the king of what is it the king of Rio, the king of the king of Rio is Josie Aldo Jr. defeated Marlin Cheeto Vera via unanimous decision. 2928 it really wasn’t that close to fight like, I was so impressed that Josie Aldo put on the show that he did. Everybody thinks well the dude’s been in the in the game for 15 years. He must be slowing down. But this guy isn’t that old. But he started young.

John Keyes 23:03
He’s like 27 isn’t? He’s young. He’s like, I think he’s 30 to 33 or something like that. Look it up, look it up and see

Ryan Smith 23:15
what you got to let you

Kelechi Onyebuchi 23:16
know, this super excited that he won because for me, this is the perfect time to retire. Congratulations. You showed that you still have it retire on top because the slide that he was on, was going to ruin his legacy. This is his chance to end on top, but it clearly won’t. But I just want to go on record as saying that now’s the time that he should walk away from the sport on top. You

Ryan Smith 23:40
know, I don’t know. I don’t know that I can agree with you. I think if he would have lost to Cheeto Vera then maybe you start looking for that retirement fight. Um, but the dude is looking great. I mean, he came came back to his leg kicks going body shots early. Yeah. Marlon Vera is not a slouch and so he made a fight of it. But it was clear at the end of the at the final bill that Josie Aldo was going to win that fight and and and do it in convincing fashion. And so I’m I’m surprised I’m shocked I did not pick Josie Aldo. You know, I think the only person who picked Josie Aldo was

Unknown Speaker 24:21
only me

Ryan Smith 24:23
was john Key’s. Yeah. So john, are you gonna Are you are you gonna call it? You want to hear it?

John Keyes 24:33
And he’s 34 years old. He has a black belt and black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Andre Coronavirus, okay. And he has a black belt and Luther leave right on the Marco who as soon as a former UFC fighter. I would like my CRO with extra onions, extra pickles. Yeah, I

Ryan Smith 24:58
gotta take that quote. Because I did not think Josie Aldo was going to was going to be able to put on the the fight that he did the question I didn’t hear you say, Does Josie Aldo have a black belt in kickboxing? Muay Thai.

John Keyes 25:18
He did not have a black belt. Okay, all right. We got that conversation. All right. All right.

Ryan Smith 25:28
in the, in the main event of the evening, Steven Wonderboy, Thompson defeated Jeff Hans of steel Neil, in a five round battle that found both of those fighters bloodied and battered and limping and all kinds of stuff. This was this was the quintessential main event to end the year. No, these guys are not the big names that you know, that we want to see for the last fight card of the year. They’re not on a pay per view. They’re, you know, all of these things could discount what we saw on Saturday night. But we saw Wonder Boy Who hasn’t been in the ring in a very long time and Jeff hands is still Neil who, let’s just let’s just go over the fact that this is a guy who earlier this year was in the hospital with congestive heart failure. Guy nearly died. came back from death’s doorstep. There we go. To come back to fight in the UFC on the last fight card of the year and put on a show where he went toe to toe with one of the best 170 pound fighters that we have in the UFC right now. And he really showed out early in the fight I think it was round two, they ended up having an accidental collision of heads, which caused a huge cut over over Jeff Mills. I there was a cut over wonder boys I Jeff’s was much worse than than than then wonder boys. They kept fighting Wonder Boy was almost untouchable. As I said he would be I being the only person to pick Wonderboy Thompson. I’m gonna go ahead and play this this this crow sound. Just think of it between the two pieces of slider bread. White Castle style.

John Keyes 27:26
Wow. Wow. Okay,

Ryan Smith 27:29
Wonderboy was nearly impossible to touch and he was just touch touch, touch touch. The only time Jeff Neal had an opportunity to win this fight was when he had Wonderboy on a cage with his back on the cage and they were in close combat fighting back and forth. That’s when Jeff Neal was able to land the strikes that he did. And in doing so made it that competitive fight that we were looking for. Unfortunately, he did not get nearly enough opportunity to do that. And this fight wasn’t at the apex arena where the octagon is smaller. I don’t know that he would have ever gotten Stephen Wonderboy Thompson on the on the cage like he did Collette you What do you think?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 28:10
I mean, I only have one question for Jeff Neal, based on the story you just told. And that question is this. Won’t he do it? Won’t it?

Unknown Speaker 28:20
Won’t he? Won’t he?

Ryan Smith 28:23
Won’t he? Won’t he do it? He will. He will. Yes, he will. So So. Jeff Neil. In the last round at the end of the last round. Wonderboy, Thompson had a pulled muscle in his leg. He limped back to his to his corner and started the fifth round basically with his leg compromised. And so this was Jeff Neal’s opportunity to finish this fight and get this win. Unfortunately, even hobbled Wonderboy, Thompson was able to survive the onslaught they literally stood toe to toe in the middle of the ring, throwing bombs and Wonderboy. Thompson was able to survive the best that that Jeff Neal had to offer at that point in the fight and won that fight 5045 on all three cards five to zero. The one of the things that Jeff Neil said at the end of the fight was that or he released a statement that said that in 2020, he suffered congestive heart failure. His corner his normal corner all came

how many how many drinks Do you have collect you? I’ve seen you drink? I’ve seen you

Unknown Speaker 29:40

Ryan Smith 29:43
vitamin water and now you’ve got like a like a What is that? A Sonic cup? What is that?

Unknown Speaker 29:49
Look? Don’t worry about the court now we got

Ryan Smith 29:56
it because what happened? This is what happened. Okay. All right. So, so he, so the show starts and he’s he’s drinking Red Bull. So he’s like, got the Red Bull, and he’s drinking it. And so I’m like, Okay, he’s drinking Red Bull. And then he uses his other hand and get a vitamin water. And so he’s checking the vitamin water and I’m like, so I start laughing there. You were talking and I started laughing and you were like, well, he’s laughing, but I couldn’t stop cuz would you picked up this third drink?

Unknown Speaker 30:26
Oh, this guy has like,

Ryan Smith 30:31
Yeah, man. You just got out of the Sahara or something you need to rehydrate. You’ve been cutting weight or something. Look,

Kelechi Onyebuchi 30:39
I believe in staying hydrated. That’s all I can say. All right, one of these drink offers me. Alright, I’m

Ryan Smith 30:47
sorry. I’m sorry. I just I had to. I had to tease you.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 30:52
While you’re laughing. I was like, Is there something on my face?

John Keyes 30:56
That’s what I was doing. I’m like, why is Ryan laughing over there? I almost called him out on it. glad I did. Okay,

Ryan Smith 31:03
so, so yeah, Jeff Neil. He had sepsis, congestive heart failure. Three of his corners tested positive for COVID One of them being one of those people being his head coach. He couldn’t see out of his right eye because of the incidental headbutt and he still survived five rounds with a with with Wonderboy Thompson. There’s nothing much more you can say about Jeff, Jeff Neil. I mean, that’s the kind of grit and determination that a fighter has to go through all of that just for an opportunity to fight in the octagon one last time in 2020. super proud of Jeff Neil, shout out to you, Jeff, I can’t wait to see you in 2021.

John Keyes 31:48
And let’s not, let’s not slip on Wonderboy, either, you know, the came in there, and I’ll be the first to admit, I didn’t. I slept on Wonderboy and he came in and he apparently put on the clinic or the striking the striking saw that we known him to be to be elusive to hit and not be hit. And well.

Ryan Smith 32:15
What Yeah, okay, okay.

Unknown Speaker 32:18

Ryan Smith 32:20
I mean, that that is it to be to hit and not be hit. That is, that is what people need to understand about this game. It is not about standing in the middle of the ring and trading punches like Mike Perry or like Angela overkill Hill used to do, it’s about hitting and not being hit using your footwork, using your slips and things like that to avoid taking the damage because when you do that, it increases your opportunity to win Wonderboy being a wonderful example of how that can look in practice. Let’s go ahead and close the book on this one and put it on the shelf because this cart is history. Let’s go to our next segment and that is finding the angles.

This is finally angles. This is where we talk about the headlines that are making waves in the UFC world and we’re going to talk about the number one and that in the UFC world, not in the MMA world. But in the combat sports talk. Well, we’re going to talk a little bit of boxing. For our headliner. Let’s get into it. This is the headliner.

Unknown Speaker 33:35

Ryan Smith 33:36
this is the headliner. This is what we talked about the number one story of the day, UFC Vegas. 17 wasn’t the only combat sport that was taking place on Saturday night there was a major boxing championship on Saturday night and that is canillo Alvarez who defeated callate calem Smith via unanimous decision to unify the super middleweight titles. So, you know, there’s a lot of people who are on that canal canal, Alvarez a hype train. And this was his toughest test. Thus far with Callum Smith being an undefeated fighter coming out of out of the UK. A lot of people thought that this was going to be you know, a tough one for for Alvarez to win, especially given the sheer size difference between Callum Smith and Canelo Alvarez if you look at him, it was another one of those kind of David and Goliath kind of size discrepancies. But, but by the end of this 12th round, people felt like this fight should have been stopped they felt like like canillo everedge should have been declared the winner that he was landing so many punches Smith was taking so much damage that this should not have been allowed to go on and therefore Alvarez unified the unify the the super middleweight titles on scorecard. have 119 109 119 109 117 111 in dominant fashion, unified, unanimous decision victory collection. What do you think?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 35:11
Ah, love to see it. I know you’re gonna talk a little bit about the strategy behind it. But my favorite part of this is did you just say Smith was outclassed?

Ryan Smith 35:23
I don’t know if I’m I don’t know if I said that he was outclassed and I say that

Kelechi Onyebuchi 35:29
90% whenever we go back to this recording, I’m going to save this as a drop. And yeah, I’m just super excited. I couldn’t be happier.

Ryan Smith 35:39
You know, I hope I said it because that’ll be the first time you’ve ever actually listened to the playback of the show.

Unknown Speaker 35:45

Unknown Speaker 35:53
man, guns blazing.

Ryan Smith 35:56
last show of the year. I gotta leave it all on. I gotta leave it all on in the ring, man. I gotta leave it all this is it. Last time we doing this in 2020. So, uh, so if you saw Caleb Smith after the fight, you would have seen that he had this large he had this ulana Youngjae chip type swelling on his arm. Now you guys know you’re running on j chick after she bought Zayn Wei Lee, she had that. Sam caselle head.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 36:32
Man enjoy his retirement.

Ryan Smith 36:34
Anyway. So So what Eddie Hearn said was that, that jaylon Smith suffered a bicep tear. I’ve heard some people say I call it a tricep tear, but a bicep tear in the second or third round. And that was on his left arm, which was the arm that he typically uses a counter left hook that stops a lot of opponents and that was the most dangerous thing that canillo Alvarez had to worry about with Caleb Smith. Now, granted, this guy’s a complete boxer. But that was his go to bread and butter as a counter striker to throw that counter left hook. And with that torn bicep in the second and third round, that, you know, in that hurt his ability to be able to really land that with any power. Now, here’s the thing. Reports are coming out that cat canillo has revealed that he actually targeted that bicep, as he’s throwing his punches. He’s punching and digging into that bicep so he could slow and otherwise mitigate that threat of the counter left hook by calem Smith ultimately detaching the bicep with his punches and keeping a huge weapon away from from hurting him. What are your thoughts on one of my

Kelechi Onyebuchi 37:58
this is one of my favorite things in all of combat sports is a lot of people see boxing and MMA as just like two brutes going in there hitting each other as hard as they can. And it’s it’s these peaks into strategy where we get to see these athletes at their best where it’s not just about your athletic performance. It’s about the tape you’ve watched and the the strategy that you’re bringing into the fight. And man that is just so crucial to say, Alright, the biggest threat that I have is this counter. So let me just completely negate that right out of the gate. Like it’s to me that’s that’s the poetry of boxing. I love to see it.

Unknown Speaker 38:37
Alright, right,

Ryan Smith 38:38
john, what do you think?

John Keyes 38:40
I think that this is where where the saying the sweet science comes into play. There. You’re right. And like Casey said, there’s nothing more beautiful than the C true technique to strategy being implemented in a fight. And this was beautiful. You have I mean, I, when I read it, I laughed about it. And not laughing at the fact that you know, that another fighter did some gruesome damage like this, but laugh at the fact that he was the he targeted deliberately. Just to notify that that tells us everything we need to know that this that canillo truly is probably the best pound for pound boxer in the world right now. It’s not one of the best in our generation.

Ryan Smith 39:31
Well, you know, and this is something that at least for us who follow mixed martial arts, this is something that happens almost every fight. When you have a striker who’s facing off against a wrestler, what do you do? You’re going to kick that lead leg you’re going to try to incapacitate that lead leg. Why? Because if you can incapacitate that lead lead leg with leg kicks. Then the wrestler who shoots in is going to shoot in slower, give you that opportunity for an uppercut for me or to just have enough Time to sprawl and keep yourself from being taken down. So it’s all about trying to wear down certain parts of, you know, a fighters toolkit so that they can’t do what they want to do. So they can’t execute their plan. We see this all the time in MMA, it’s really cool to see it happening in boxing and see it produce such amazing success.

John Keyes 40:23
Yeah. Are they trying to catch up?

Ryan Smith 40:27
Yeah, well, they, they kind of need to. And that brings us to, you know, when we start talking about the kind of the decline of boxing, um, we have to start talking about the fact that, you know, people like Mike Tyson have said that the Logan Paul and Jake Paul, are really important to the future of boxing because they bring new eyeballs to a sport that is, I would say in decline. And so you know, when you have you have the Paul brothers who are making huge waves in the boxing world, and people are focused in or paying attention to them, who have never watched the sport who don’t follow it. They are the casual of the casuals. But they’re bringing their pocketbooks they’re bringing new money into the sport. And so it’s it’s one of those things where now people like canillo Alvarez and people like, you know, you know, Mike Tyson and a lot of these other fighters and even MMA fighters want to get a piece of these Paul brothers because they’re not slouches, but they got huge bounce, and they like to talk smack. And so canillo Alvarez said that he would be willing to spar with Logan and Jake Paul, because he wants to show them that what you’re doing is classified as boxing. But it is not the sweet science. This is a dangerous sport. And once you get into the ring with someone not named Nate Robinson, things get different things get a little bit difficult. A lot of it difficult.

Unknown Speaker 42:01
Um, Collette, she’s

Ryan Smith 42:03
on mute, so we’re just gonna watch his mouth move.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 42:05
Yeah, like, I was profound in those moments, but partially blame karma. Or not Conor Floyd for this where we’re at now, because the fight with Conor McGregor kind of legitimize that notion that anybody could get in the ring with a world class boxer. And I think anyone who wasn’t a casual was able to see that Floyd was toying with McGregor, there was never really a boxing match going on. This was just him trying to earn his money at the right round, and keep it interesting enough for people to stay in there. So it kind of created this appetite like oh, like just be a decent athlete, and you can hang in there and that that’s going to draw eyeballs. I think boxing is that yet again, an inflection point it’s it’s a little different. MMA went full on into the bro culture and had RT t shirts and was growing eyebrow, eyeballs from, like a certain class of American citizens versus right now we are getting those youtubers watching. They are engaging more but I think from a long term marketing strategy. It’s really bad for the sport of boxing because I don’t see it having that sustainability. These gamers are or they’re not even YouTube gamers. They’re youtubers coming in getting additional content, they’re driving content not to boxing, but to their own fan pages, which doesn’t help the sport of boxing at all. So short term wins long term hurts your sport and you have to re legitimize and you’ve got to get a strategy on that really quickly, but should include knocking out one of these youtubers post-haste.

Ryan Smith 43:47
JOHN, what do you think?

John Keyes 43:49
I will slightly disagree with Casey on the Conor McGregor, Floyd Mayweather, at least Conor McGregor was a trained kickboxer. Okay. different muscles this I mean, I have no problem. When it’s a fighter from one from one discipline taken on a fighter from another discipline. That is the foundation of UFC. What who is the better who is the better fighter? So I’m good with that. But when I had when I see a kid who has no real formal boxing training, think that just because he knocked out two other guys that have no real formal boxing training, calling himself a boxer. I don’t you know, I, I can’t I can’t stand for that. Okay, nope. And no legitimate boxer should stand for it either. Is it? Once again, like you said, Casey, is it great for the short term? Yeah, we get that. We’ll get that net new crap coming in. And they’ll see what what we do. But in the long term, you’re turning I guess. This is where They turned legitimate catches catch can wrestling and to professional wrestling at this point anything anybody can jump into the rain and do this and reality while yes you know professional wrestling comes from catches catch can which is a legitimate fighting art it’s his professional wrestling I don’t want to see boxing going out like that I it’s it deserves way too much you know it’s please somebody knock them out

Ryan Smith 45:31
well okay but that’s the thing right is that they they they want they believe that they are these actual their actual boxers now I disagree I’m with I’m with john Key’s on the Floyd Mayweather Conor McGregor because Conor McGregor you go back, he started off as a boxer in Dublin like that is what his base style was.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 45:51
I disagree with myself now that guy, be honest. Okay, but but

Ryan Smith 45:58
but I do think you’re right that just because Logan Paul fought KSI twice, just because Jake, Jake, Paul knocked out Nate Robinson. They are not legitimate boxers. And so once you start getting them in there with people who have been doing this their whole lives, you’re going to see that there are two quote Israel adesanya levels to this. Now here’s the thing though, Jake, Paul’s mission is to get Conor McGregor in in the ring and fight Conor McGregor. And he has done so by offering a $50 million purse to Conor McGregor, he has shown proof of funds that he actually has $50 million, that he would be willing to pay Conor McGregor, if Connor would get into the ring. And he has done his best to piss Conor McGregor off by not only talking about the fact that he’s beating up old dudes and bars, but also the fact that his wife is a four. And you know that his that he’s cheating on his wife and all that kind of stuff. We talked about this a few weeks ago. And john, you had you felt like that across the line, going into Conor McGregor his wife and all the things that he had said, we had kind of gone back and forth and said, Hey, listen, it What if someone you know, said that to your wife? How would you react? Do you recall that conversation?

John Keyes 47:22
You know, I do recall the conversation. And I’ll paraphrase what i what i said somebody is going, somebody don’t fight, we got it, we got to fight at this point, as you you can only talk about you can go to certain levels. And then it’s like, Okay, you know what, we’re done talking, we got to start swinging at this point. I do remember us saying to the opposite, that you know, that you would not go to that level. That’s just sometimes sometimes where you just like, you know, I think even Buddha said that. You must take the high road, but every now and then you got to put a little foot two but and I’m with boot on that sometimes you got to look but the but yeah, you know, but

Kelechi Onyebuchi 48:07
not the affairs of sheep. That’s right.

John Keyes 48:10
But eventually sheep gets eaten. Okay, if it’s not a squeaky wheel gets the grease, the louder sheep is gonna have to get ate that day.

Ryan Smith 48:21
Well, you know, I think I’ll go ahead. You know, I’ve been I really do think that if you ever go and watch Larry Fishburne or aka Laurence Fishburne in deep cover, you learn the fact that you know as as a man you do not allow yourself to be manipulated by those people who would call you out and try to get you to react emotionally to something that are that amounts to words. And so you have to be able to just move past it rise above it or do whatever you have to because if you can get mad and create a fight and go and create a scene, because someone said something that means anyone can get you at any time to do whatever they want. Just by pissing you off just by saying what they need to say.

John Keyes 49:08
Now I will Okay, now I will vehemently disagree with this because you my friend have not watched enough prison yard movies. You have not

Kelechi Onyebuchi 49:23
reality enough what

Unknown Speaker 49:25
you watch. I’m gonna

Ryan Smith 49:29
I’m gonna let you I’m gonna give you full screen you go around for it, go for it.

John Keyes 49:34
This is what you do cuz he if you if you pop out to one dude. Okay, then you’re gonna get pumped out by all dudes. I do believe is undisputed. This is first. what you gotta do. You got to go to the middle of the yard and you got a bond the biggest person and you got to work them. I mean, whip them to the con Preet and make sure everybody sees This so you never get worked on again. Yes, exactly. Before we put

Kelechi Onyebuchi 50:06
that terrible information out there to let me Don’t do that.

Unknown Speaker 50:10
Let me just say like

Kelechi Onyebuchi 50:12
that only works amongst equals again like we’re not talking about Logan Paul being a fighter within the UFC calling out another UFC fighter or Jake I don’t even remember the to check mark, check even in the same league, so you legitimize them by having these conversations and that’s a big problem. So like, whether it comes to he’s calling out your wife or whatever, like, here’s the thing I’m about to say something that hurts my soul. Paige Van Zandt was right in the way that she’s handled the end of her UFC career. She didn’t let the the back and forth disrespect drive her decision on who she was going to fight next. And in fact, the harder that people pressed into her personal life, she was like, Look, you no longer earn a shot like what’s what’s the Macy barber going after

Unknown Speaker 51:04
barber? Like that effectively

Kelechi Onyebuchi 51:07
ended Macy’s career. Like, we haven’t heard anything from Mesa, Yes, she’s recovering or whatever. But she lost her shot. She was legitimately in the top three, to be able to fight Paige Van Zandt get that pay money, but she decided to take it personal and pages shutting that down. Like Could you imagine if Connor took this guy Seriously? For what? Like you win the fight in two seconds? Everyone’s mad that they wasted their money. Like, there’s no upside to this. Like the only way that this ends is for Connor to just be like, Look, this this guy doesn’t matter. Next question.

Ryan Smith 51:45
So here’s the here’s the reason why the why I brought up the Jake Paul and and and john, I can see that you have other things you want to say about this. So we may have to do after the bill or something like that. But here’s the thing. Jake, Paul, everybody’s pissed off at Jake Paul. Like, how could you talk about Conor McGregor his wife? And he says, Wait, didn’t Conor McGregor talk about Habib numurkah met housewife. This is just Connor getting his own medicine. And I was like, I was like, well now like, what is what is the quote from from from? From Django one chain? It’s you have my attention. But now I’m interested.

John Keyes 52:30
Now if you got it backwards, Okay, first off interested. But now you have my attention.

Unknown Speaker 52:36

Ryan Smith 52:37
So now I’m like, Oh, yeah. Now, if this is not just some young punk who’s talking smack, but he’s actually giving Conor McGregor his own medicine and saying step in the ring with me. And I’m going to show you what I can do. Now I’m interested. Like there’s a storyline here. I don’t think it’s gonna work out well, for Jake Paul, you’re a wrestler and who’s trying to learn how to box you facing off against one of the most talented strikers in the world. It’s not looking good.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 53:04
It will work out because at the end of the day, it’s not really about fighting. It’s about drawing view and modeling. The 50 million we know the pulse don’t have that in cash like that’s coming from promoters as well. Who put in earnest money so right? Either way, you pay Connor his 50 you make 20 off of it. You got 20 million to get beat in a fight that you had no chance in. I’ll take that. And Connor is not gonna kill you. At best you get knocked out. Like it’s not like fighting Tyson where you could legitimately die. So yeah, give me one. Yeah.

John Keyes 53:39
Let’s see. Okay, so maybe I’m coming from an older school that thinks that, you know, that’s the way you’re like two days. Two days younger than me. I don’t want to hear that. Okay. Lots.

Ryan Smith 53:51
lots lots of Larry. That’s all,

John Keyes 53:53
you know, exciting times. That’s what this is right here. Dude, I can’t okay, because you. I mean, first of all, you’re disrespecting your disrespect. It’s like, it’s like how I feel about mumble rappers versus legitimate, like old school rappers like ice cube ice cubes. Our EP an EP m DS. When I think when I hear Lil Yachty Okay, Uzi Bert. All right. I like that, you know, they dare to think that they’re gonna be rappers. I have a problem with that. Okay, because I’ve heard rappers, okay. I have seen it. I’ve heard it. And you ain’t it? And I really wish they would walk up on you and be like having a nice, stern conversation with you about it.

Ryan Smith 54:47
Yeah, you know, I think there’s some truth to that. But let me let me say this. When it comes to fights that we want to see is Tyson fury versus Anthony Joshua. And they have verbally agreed to fight summer 2021 we got something to look forward to, we could see a unification of all of the heavyweight belts in one fight on Saturday night and I will not Saturday night but in the summer of 2021. Um, and so that is that that is a that is an awesome thing I am I am looking forward to that. You know, I’ve been on the Gypsy kings hype train ever since he, you know he had that draw with Deontay Wilder. I think that Anthony Joshua has so many people fall, you know, flying and following behind him. This is a collision that I think is exciting for the prospects of 2021. What do you think, john? JOHN,

John Keyes 55:46
I think this this needs to happen. We need to have a hotbox and summer. That’s what we need to have. After 2020 we need to have a hotbox summer.

Ryan Smith 55:56
Well, I would I would definitely like to see it. So we’re going to keep our eye on that. Definitely. Definitely are going to be a lot of people talking about that in the near future. We have a new guest coming into the show. And it is George g money Stallworth. How you doing sir?

George Stallworth 56:17
How you doing? How you doing? Hey, look at that shirt. That shirt you got on?

Ryan Smith 56:25
There it is. Look at that. Georgia sporting the intelligent defense to MMA discussion group that is our group on the on Facebook. If you want to come and have intelligent discussion with us like we’re having on the show, then definitely join the intelligent defense discussion group on Facebook. We would be so glad to have you we got merchants on our website at combat sports.com of course I am wearing the dark side. Muay Thai shirt. Let me just get there it is right there. Look at that in the back look around like like a like an owl’s head but um, you know, definitely sporting that so if you want that shirt too, we still got to put it on on the on the site but we’ll make sure that that that’s that that’s up there. So uh, George what we’re talking about is we’re talking about the Anthony Joshua Tyson fury. They have agreed verbally to to fight in summer of 2021. What do you think about that?

George Stallworth 57:25
I think it’s the bike to make man. I get it. Deontay Wilder once that REMAX I don’t think he’s gonna get it. And based upon his his reaction to the loss, he probably shouldn’t get it. I think if he had reacted differently, then yeah, give him the rematch. But based upon what I saw and the way he reacted to the loss. I read the see the Anthony Joshua fight and it’s in that a title unification,

Ryan Smith 57:51
title unification like that. Absolutely. Yeah.

George Stallworth 57:54
So. So yeah, I get it. I get it. What’s up, Casey?

Unknown Speaker 57:58
Oh, no.

Ryan Smith 58:08
Did I bring you back too soon? I’m sorry.

Unknown Speaker 58:12
I’m barely.

Unknown Speaker 58:16
But real quick, though.

Unknown Speaker 58:19
paid per flag.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 58:22
There was never a question of do I get paid to step aside? There wasn’t a question of getting a title shot, he had already agreed to be passed over for an X amount of money.

George Stallworth 58:34
Well, typically in the especially in these kind of fights. When a champ puts belts on the line, there’s a clause in the contract, it automatically calls for a rematch. And I know there was something like that in his contract originally. So I just wonder how they play that bid out. And it makes sense. Obviously, he got paid to go ahead and set that part of the contract to the side.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 58:55
Yeah. Well,

Ryan Smith 58:57
he definitely was calling out Tyson. Tyson fury. Yeah. to, to live up to that to that promise in the contract, or the rematch. Then he got quiet real quick. So that’s probably what happened. You know, speaking of somebody who, who I don’t have a segue here, so let’s just go into it. So given the fact that 2021 represents a new administration coming into office in DC, that does mean that certain US Congress people will take cabinet positions within the Biden administration in 2021, which means that some seats within the senate are going to be left open, one of which is one in New Mexico. This is currently held by Deb Holland, in New Mexico’s first district and she will probably end up being the Secretary of the Interior, which means that there is a seat open in New Mexico Now you may know of a famous gym in New Mexico and One of the one of the owners of the gym has thrown is talking about throwing his hat in the rain. None other than Greg Jackson could potentially be running for a senate seat in 2021 to fill the vacancy left by that column.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:00:17
Did he declare a party affiliation? I feel like I’ve got a guess. Uh,

Ryan Smith 1:00:24
as of right now, he has not declared a party affiliation that we are aware of. However, it says that, uh, issues important to Jackson, our criminal justice reform, childcare programs, he also supports teaching police officers, MMA tactics, and that way that they can avoid using deadly force. He’s also in favor of pushing to expand federal early child care programs to combat poverty in New Mexico. So when you’re talking? Yeah, I mean, that those are pretty progressive issues, you know, criminal reform, criminal justice reform and childcare programs. That’s pretty progressive.

John Keyes 1:01:07
And it said it said that he may run as an independent by the by the by. So yeah.

Ryan Smith 1:01:16
So someone who is not an Go ahead, collect You know, that’s interesting, okay. Someone who is not an independent and who is is a staunch Trump supporter is the UFC President, Dana White. Now we’ve talked about his history with Donald Trump. Basically, Donald Trump helped save the UFC in its early days of the Fertitta brothers and because of Donald Trump’s willingness to, to, to host those first two fights that Dana White needed to be able to get that cash flow to keep the keep the the lights on. He basically made a friend for life. Dana White, I’m slam critic for escaping video looking back on 2020. So remember, even you can go back to our shows where we were, we were doubting Dana White’s ability to be able to put on the number of shows he needed safely. We had a huge debate about whether or not you fighters were going to get Coronavirus that this was going to be a complete and utter failure at Dana White’s insistence that they were going to put on shows in 2020. Despite all of the lockdowns, the shelters in place, and the NPI protocols to keep Coronavirus under control. we doubted Dana White and he delivered.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:43
I don’t know that he did look

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:02:45
like he delivered for his shareholders. But did he deliver for the organization as a whole and was fighting me? So my problem with that is is it as success when X percent get Coronavirus and sideline their entire career? Is it it? Is it a success that he didn’t have contracts with individual teams and individual cities that

Unknown Speaker 1:03:13
like he had,

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:03:14
he had in place a structure that was completely different from all other sports who have collective bargaining who have all these associations. So it’s not like he did something super special. You basically paid fighters bare minimum to put their lives in additional risk. So congratulations, you got Disney money. No, no, no, he.

Ryan Smith 1:03:35
I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna

Unknown Speaker 1:03:38
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate today. I’m

Ryan Smith 1:03:41
with you.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:41
I want you George for

George Stallworth 1:03:42
being roll footage right there.

Ryan Smith 1:03:44
I’m with you, George. So you go right ahead.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:46
Anyway, see, I’m here to

George Stallworth 1:03:48
single handedly save sports on TV. Dana White single handedly gave every American not even a man every American gave an international market an opportunity to once again almost go back to some semblance of a normal life by putting sports back on TV. He did it in a safe manner. The guys who didn’t wind up with Coronavirus throughout this process. You can’t blame that on the UFC. There’s, I can’t think of anybody you can actually say that they received are they they were subject to Coronavirus as a result of the actions of the UFC. We don’t know what actions took place prior to the UFC, putting on those fights were those guys who did you had several guys who did contract the virus. You had several guys who prior to even getting on the plane were tested. Hey, you’re positive. You can’t come. We didn’t hear anything about guys who were actually at Abu Dhabi are over at the at the apex center, who may have contracted Coronavirus there. So I don’t I don’t think there’s anyone you can say they can track the Coronavirus as a result of the UFC Putting on fights. What was the other point you made? Casey there was one other

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:05:06
just that he doesn’t have like fighters in every city. Like, it’s not like he’s got a sports team in every city, right? So he got to control the things a little different than any other sports league. And he’s paying these fighters. Some of these fighters were still just getting their UFC minimum contracts. They’re not getting happy.

George Stallworth 1:05:27
Dana White is providing opportunities for young men to showcase their talent at a time when no one no one else can. That’s a win for everybody. Alright,

Ryan Smith 1:05:39
let’s kick it over to john keys. What you got john? Um,

John Keyes 1:05:45
well, I got what do you got? like? I like the I agree with Casey. All right, that for the setback, that if they’re going to be going into a situation like this, they could have got paid some hazard pay. Okay. If we pay if we paid, you know, our military personnel to go into any zone that is not considered a safe zone hazard pay. Dana White could have could have could have forked over a little bit a little bit more money. Okay. I’ve seen too many videos of Dana White, his house chillin, and his house is not small. Okay. A lot of fighters out there. Some of the fighters that did make it. I’m glad that they’ve made through, they got paid. They got presented an opportunity to do it. And they took it. I’m glad for that. But what about those fighters that got there and then got sick? Okay, what do they get paid? For?

George Stallworth 1:06:38
What about the fighters who have not fought at all this year period, not due to Coronavirus itself, but just the fact that they didn’t have a show to be on. At a time when people are out of work. Dana White is providing work for these guys. Not only that, you got several fighters who fought 543 times this year who never would have had that opportunity at any other point in their life. And got showcase got flown to Abu Dhabi got put up in great hotel. Man, I got to come in the UFC at a time when everybody else is is dedicated on them. These guys won fulfill their contract with the with ESPN, despite pressure from everywhere else not to be able to do this showcase Got Talent put on great shows. Do we just had this conversation a couple of days ago. The other night that was one of the greatest cards this year. What y’all are basically saying is it Dana White should have done that.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:07:34
Now the question was, could Dana White do it? It was should Dana White do it in the midst of April, when we were at the peak of our pandemic. closing down. He works his strings with the governor of florida and with

Unknown Speaker 1:07:50
the Santa Trump, Santa Santa San

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:07:52
Trump, Santos and pro to stay open. So the question and the thing is like Dana White called a Trump and he went after the media, instead of after his bosses, which was Disney was the one who told him not to do it. It wasn’t the media saying oh, this is a bad idea. Disney said yeah, y’all don’t y’all aren’t starting

Ryan Smith 1:08:11
know that. That’s incorrect. That is patently false. It was the media saying that he shouldn’t do it. And it was Disney. And it was Disney at the request of Gavin Newsome because he was trying to get that get get that card in California. And Disney went to Gavin Newsom, the governor of California and the governor stopped that fight. Now, here’s the thing I agree with with George like now I want to go off and be like I was super critical of Dana White back in April in May saying this is this is this is a recipe for disaster. There’s no way he’s gonna be able to pull it off. There’s so many things that he’s got to control. This dude did this 40 something fights he put on 400. I think they said 400 fights in 2020. across all of the cards that they had. All of these fighters had an opportunity to make money that they would not have had if we would have listened to us. If he would have listened to us. If he would listen to the media, if he would have listened to experts who said you can’t do the media.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:09:24
Like we have to. We can’t take his narrative. The media said he shouldn’t do this based on the knowledge the experts at the time you had Anthony Fauci telling us we needed to socially distance and you had Dana White saying whatever we will, we’ll do what we want. So it’s not like

George Stallworth 1:09:41
no that is not what he said.

Ryan Smith 1:09:45
It was

George Stallworth 1:09:46
a put a fist, then use it Do Not only that, they provide it. The roadmap for everybody else to do it. The reason basketball was A football The reason other sports are back on TV is because of the UFC. Fall See? You,

Ryan Smith 1:10:10
you became about two months ahead of everybody.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:10:14
UFC had smaller things to worry about, like how do you move on people to sign off with you the NBA collective bargaining agreements? You think that was easier than

Ryan Smith 1:10:24
that’s a red herring Collette she that that’s not that you’re saying that Dana White’s accomplishments is not significant because he had more control than the NFL who’s got a 32, teams 52, man rosters and all that kind of stuff like that is a separate

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:10:41
five minute videos saying how awesome I am. Because I got away with skirting laws around the pandemic, or I had it right away with

George Stallworth 1:10:51
skirting laws around a pandemic, opportunities to showcase talent when everybody else was shut down. Not only that, how to keep providing a safe Avenue, go back, find me how many fighters tested positive as a result of flying to Abu Dhabi, or going to the apex center.

Ryan Smith 1:11:11
Listen to the words that George is saying. It’s not how many fighters got contracted COVID night Omen before they fought, but how many contracted COVID-19 as a result of fighting?

George Stallworth 1:11:26

Ryan Smith 1:11:27
I we don’t have that data, that data doesn’t exist. We are in a common argument. No, that’s not a straw man argument.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:11:37
You can’t there is no data that exists. And you’re telling me to defend against this data. It’s a straw man argument.

Ryan Smith 1:11:43
The reason why we are positioning the argument the way that we are is to say that this has not been shown as a problem that we are trying to create this this this this story that Dana White has negatively impacted fighters throughout the year because he has brazenly gone on and put on these shows against Dr. Fauci and other experts

Unknown Speaker 1:12:11
opinion that

George Stallworth 1:12:12
not only had it not been shown as a problem, Dana White went above and beyond protocol to make sure it didn’t become a problem. He they thought to keep fighters safe, they fought to keep their staff safe. They fought to provide an environment where you didn’t have to worry about that they created bubbles. I don’t know what more you could want from him man. And and then to say that he was taken advantage of the situation. That’s absolutely ludicrous, man. He was providing opportunities to everybody involved. Think about how many outside of just fighters but just the UFC staff, the the lobby the hotel industry in Vegas. Well, so you want to go with this? The catering industry, I mean, just all these different opportunities to create money, jobs and opportunities for people that he’s responsible for.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:09
Absolutely, because

George Stallworth 1:13:10
because he was bold initiatives he took. I gotta commend Dana White.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:17
What he is, no. Yeah.

Ryan Smith 1:13:20
So now is that your dog whistling now going? He’s a job creator. We know what that means. Come on now. Like, this is the thing. Dana. Dana White is Dana White is absolutely. We listen, if we have been extremely critical of Dana White throughout 2020, we have been extremely critical to Dana White, for a lot of things that he’s done and a lot of things that he said. But when it comes down to the fact that this was a person who was faced with a parent company that was losing money, and the fact that he had to put on something like 45 shows, to be able to fulfill his contracts, you know, and and shout out to the pidilite he’s out. He’s, he’s in the audience tonight. He had to fulfill those contracts. And he had to do it in a way that wasn’t going to destroy the company like it, what he had to do and what he took on was a Herculean effort, and to be here at the end of 2020. having fulfilled those contracts, haven’t seen someone like our hometown hero, Kevin Holland fight five times. As he did. Kevin Holland thought he went to the mountain the jaws of the lions den five times came back No, no Coronavirus Davidson Figaro thought four times this year. No Coronavirus

George Stallworth 1:14:49
how’s it What?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:14:51
I don’t understand. Yeah, go ahead keeps

John Keyes 1:14:54
I’m sorry. I’m sorry to cut in on on this on this live may debate. Let’s just say it like this. Dana White took a chance, he took a big chance, and it paid off. So he should have the ability to enjoy his laurels. Yes or no? Are we Am I am when I’ve done the same thing. Now, I probably witnessed, because there was a lot larger on the line. But at the same time, it was one of those things. The problem that we that we are expressing about the decision that Dana did is a is a layer to a problem that that is much bigger than combat sports. Okay, yeah. There, there are a lot of problems that we can I mean, whether you know, you want to agree to it or not, the bottom line is there are a lot more problems that could have been handled differently, that wouldn’t even have to that this situation should not have even happened, that he had to sit there and take a tick a chance to go out there and put this put these shows on. It shouldn’t have happened. But like I said, Dana, What in the world? No. Artist said he put the UFC on his back, whether we agree with it or not. Because think about if he hadn’t done this, we would not be here talking about it. Right now.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:16:29
The whole thing? Like Yes, he’s, he did that. It’s a Herculean effort. Congratulations. You got sports? I don’t know that what you did was that much bigger than anyone else? Because here’s why. When I see a guy who hold on, hold on, let me get the point out, okay. When you get a guy who’s like 611 in the seventh grade, and he 140 pounds, he’s Zion Williams, you don’t get to have a five minute commercial about yourself, saying like, no one believed in me, I could never do it. But you as Dana White had the president in your back pocket, you had every ability to skirt laws so that you can get your your, your sports league on TV, before anyone else. Everyone else was working on contingency plans, you had the easiest path to victory. And then instead of saying, hey, congratulations to the whole team that made this happen. You made this a story about yourself for the media Dougie. When the reporters that you should have been talking about we’re saying we want to see UFC we want to see MMA they get paid covering that. No one was saying he couldn’t do it. You’re saying at this time this is not what the guidelines are for we’re gonna have it since I’m here for you can’t make a five minute video celebrating yourself.

Ryan Smith 1:17:46
We’re gonna have to we’re gonna have to make this a after the bell continuation. Because I don’t feel like we’ve reached a resolution. I do feel like it’s it’s nice that Collette she has actually given some credit to Dana White. But at the end of the day, here’s here’s my last statement on it is at the end of the day, you you. You can’t discount the fact that Dana White still had some challenges that were massive. He ended up having to build a fight Island. Like we Yes, in order to get his show his show in May before everyone else. Yeah, he did use his connections with Florida. But he didn’t stay in Florida. He went did what he had to do in Las Vegas. So many fights took place at the apex Arena in Las Vegas. He also went to Abu Dhabi, how many times did he go like four or five times to Abu Dhabi and had cars there that

George Stallworth 1:18:45
itself was a massive undertaking, just to put the infrastructure in place to do that in Abu Dhabi. You can say that, you know, Dana White is being selfish or whatever. But the truth is that massive undertaking right there provided great opportunities for a number of people we will never even know of.

Ryan Smith 1:19:03
And the last thing I want to say before we go on before we go on is there if you watch the five minute video, because if you keep referencing the five minute video, but you at the same time, don’t don’t you keep saying that the media did not doubt him. The media wasn’t no. The five minute video is full of clips of media people doubting and putting scientists and epidemiologists on camera saying Dana White should not do this. And should was the meeting. Okay,

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:19:36
there’s a difference. we’re arguing, man. I’ve never ever said that he couldn’t do it. It was a matter of public health and safety.

George Stallworth 1:19:47
But when you look at the public health and safety factors that he put in place, Dana was right in the end.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:19:54
No, he wasn’t he like the fighter that flew in and got tested. Congratulations. You are now a threat to everyone you flew with. So yeah, congratulations while having restrictions in flight, you’re putting people Ah,

George Stallworth 1:20:09
dude, you can’t say, in our ordinary, everyday life,

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:20:14
go check Twitter, one

George Stallworth 1:20:16
of us has been subject to this disease to this pandemic, you can’t you can’t say you can’t blame Dana White for anyone contracting COVID per se, because every day you walk out of your house, you have an opportunity to contract it.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:20:32
Not true at all. So I can’t go on client dinners right now. Because my company is saying that, if I on behalf of my company and going out, and I get somebody else infected, the company is liable.

George Stallworth 1:20:44
But what I’m saying to you is, there’s no way anyone can walk outside of your door safely and say, I have no risk whatsoever, other than staying in the house, period point blank and shutting things down. That’s it, that’s the same thing that can be done right now. And so in, in, in light of that, to put on shows as safely as possible as Ed, you’ve got to commend this man for this. This this man made an opportunity for so many people at a time when no one else was doing that. The reason we’re able to do this show here tonight and have a conversation piece is because of what he did.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:21:19
So you don’t think that the media people that he’s blaming don’t have the same incentive they don’t get

George Stallworth 1:21:24
parenting covered blaming the media. I think the media lit him up and all he’s saying is look at me now.

Ryan Smith 1:21:31
Look at me now I’m with you. I do I do want to say I do want to say that let Peter light said that you know a lot of these clips are out of context we do it is important and culture you yourself said that a lot of times when we look at things on the news, it is incumbent upon us to go back and look at the actual whole clip to do our own research to find out what it is that was actually said you know, rather than just take clips and things like that, so I think that’s a fair comment and things like that. I just want to I want to move on. We we it was clear that we have are clear where we stand very clear so now that you guys know we where we stand Georgian and I feel like Dana is owning a debt of gratitude. There you go actually, right, right. There you go. A collection and john keys feel like you know that we should we should not we should not be so quick to to shout out the the Baldwin. Now if you want to grind an axe against Dana White, like oh, Gary COVID-19 is not the topic. It’s the fact that he’s going in on thug rose no hair nama Yunus saying she don’t really want to fight for the title, which is why he put Carla Esparza and in the in the title shot against Zang Wei Li You know, all I gotta say is this.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:59

Unknown Speaker 1:22:59
the time has come for us to select one courageous young woman for the honor of representing district 12 in the 74th annual Hunger Games

Ryan Smith 1:23:13
because this is exactly what you’re basically doing to Carla Esparza you are basically sacrificing her you are making her a tribute to the Goddess known as Xang Wei Li by putting her in there to fight this is this is bloody murder. This is wrong. Like why are you doing this to Karla? What does she do to you Dana?

John Keyes 1:23:34
If I do remember that movie the movie series?

Ryan Smith 1:23:39
What a no Katniss Everdeen

John Keyes 1:23:42
I’m just saying you compare it to cabinet that you throw it out there in the court. Let us look at that. Katniss ended up starting a revolution.

Ryan Smith 1:23:50
Okay, Carla Esparza let’s let’s do some m&a.

John Keyes 1:23:55
Monster Okay, you know,

George Stallworth 1:23:57
you think who I would have the person I think would have been a better candidate for this right now. And Ryan you probably gonna hate me for this should have been Angie overkill. He’ll okay. She was a better candidate for this tribute fight.

John Keyes 1:24:13
Okay, so let’s talk about why he did that. Okay, cuz it’s obvious. This is and this is not saying anything bad about Carla spars.

Ryan Smith 1:24:22
I’m doing that. I’m talking smack to Carlos Barson.

John Keyes 1:24:26
But this this seems like it’s a slap in the face. Gross. It is okay. It seems like it’s a slap in the face. Since you’re not gonna fight, quote unquote, because I’ve heard two different sides that if you’re not gonna fight, I will put somebody in there that is willing to fight somebody who, quote unquote, doesn’t have a chance in the ring. With with segway Lee. That’s the

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:24:51
number one argument against Dana White. How he talks about his fighters and then His point and point and point and points again. We’re Dana White goes out of his way to talk trash about his own people. This is a toxic work environment.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:11
Like let thug roll and live.

Ryan Smith 1:25:14
I’m not I’m not I’m not disputing that. That’s why it’s on here. Because I do think that it’s wrong what he’s saying to Doug rose, but I do have to put that put a light comment on on the screen. He says, coach, you’re talking about the casual put nanji overhill. overkill Hill, in the, in the ring with Zheng Wei Li. So,

George Stallworth 1:25:35
Mr. Smith, I didn’t hear you disagree with me? No.

Ryan Smith 1:25:41
I mean, I would like to see it, but I know, I don’t think she deserves to be there. You know,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:47
neither does call it as far as definitely not no,

Ryan Smith 1:25:51
yes, it is true.

John Keyes 1:25:54
Okay, so are we saying that Dana White has basically said that the roses for the streets now. That is,

Unknown Speaker 1:26:08
is he taking

John Keyes 1:26:10
a page out of the book of the ashy Negro is either they would either right now the future? Is he saying the sheets for the streets? Hmm. Oh, man.

Ryan Smith 1:26:21
I don’t know the reference. But I don’t know. The thing is, is that rose has Doug Rose has responded in what she said was, you know, maybe there’s a misconception that I’m weak minded or whatever, that I can’t handle the pressures of being champion, or whatever people say, but that’s not true. She says, that’s what I live for. I’m the pressure cooker, what better reason to remind me why I fight. Then my grandfather passing away. Remember, I think she lost her grandfather, due to COVID-19. This year. Um, this is this would be a great way for her to come back and fight for his fight his, you know, in his honor. She just I’m super ready for all of that. That’s because I’m, that’s what I’m fighting for. I don’t know what the behind the scenes is. My guess is, is that there are some contract dispute issues. Let’s face it, I can imagine that working with rose nama units may be a bit volatile, or a bit out of the ordinary. And so perhaps there’s a frustration that Dana White has in her unwillingness to do something that he wants her to do. And so therefore, he’s being punitive in a way to to try to disrespect her, because she won’t sign certain contract terms or do something that she doesn’t want to do. She shown rose nama units has shown that she does not get pushed around.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:27:49
And this is why you need somebody who actually knows how to do fighter relations, and doesn’t have to have just one way strong arm bullying form of managing his business, like initially, it sounds facetious when I say it, but Dana White is toxic to his own organization. And could you imagine how much better the UFC would be under the leadership where the fight the fighters don’t have to constantly contend with management, over image over branding and willingness to fight every time Dana White says this is a fan have to question Is this real? Because he lied so many times about fighters wanting a title shot?

Ryan Smith 1:28:28
Yes. But Collette she the facts don’t support that. The fact is, is that UFC is up 33% in an off in a 2020 year that he’s got talent coming in in droves from from the Tuesday night contender series. He’s laying off 60 fighters because he can’t he’s got to make room like this is not one of those things where fighters are are leaving because Dana White is so it is so toxic. They are running to him.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:29:01
Yo Romero says what

Ryan Smith 1:29:07
have you seen what yo Romero wanted to fight big wanted to have big fights even though he was on a four fight losing streak. And

Unknown Speaker 1:29:16
how many times twice?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:18
Even three times? Yeah,

Ryan Smith 1:29:24
you’re like what is leaving Joelle Romero. Okay, but we but while we got what we lost Yoel Romero, we got Kevin Holland we got, you know, a lot of these other fighters Chase, we got.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:29:39
Look, all I’m saying is the environment is toxic, and he could do a better job with his fighter relations. How he managed to stop right

Ryan Smith 1:29:46
there. Stop right there and say that the environment is toxic and he could do a better job 100% I can’t dispute that the environment is toxic, he could do a better job. But once you start saying well fighters are leaving in the UFC See, no fighters are run.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:03
You added that when we roll back the

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:30:05
tape, we all like any white is a toxic leader, and then you gave me all his act accolades. And so yeah, like he’s been effective and toxic.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:17
Okay? Okay.

Ryan Smith 1:30:18
So if you choose to stop there, then I can’t I refuse to dispute that he is toxic, it is a toxic environment that you’re

Unknown Speaker 1:30:31
going to do is that

George Stallworth 1:30:33
you’re not going to find an environment, especially when it comes to people at the top of their craft, where you don’t have an issue with whoever’s running that particular organization. We see that time and time again, no matter what. You have people who love Trump, you got people who hate Trump, you got people who love Nancy Pelosi, you got people who hate Nancy. And it’s the same way in the UFC is the same scenario. You got people over here on this side who are absolutely in love with everything Dana White has done this year. You got people on the other side, who take issues with everything that Dana White has done this year. But the truth at the end of the day, is that the UFC is placed itself in the best position, it could possibly be given the circumstances. I can’t imagine, I can’t imagine what UFC in any better spot than it is in right now. When it comes down to things.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:31:30
So I So what you’re saying is true. But I’m still staying on this thug rose thing and about the fact that this happens time and time and time again. And how that that’s a problem.

George Stallworth 1:31:41
I’m not disagreeing with you. I absolutely, yes. You got fighters on one side who? Dana White is totally, totally toxic to them. But at the same time you got fighters who are absolutely saying in his praise. You even Joelle Romero, I think on his way out, he wasn’t critical of Dana, per se. If I’m not mistaken.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:32:03
You’re correct. So but there you have your lb person?

George Stallworth 1:32:09
Yeah, yeah. I don’t think it’s necessarily that he’s, he’s recognizing it for what it is, hey, I’ve been given three title shots or whatever the case may be, I have this opportunity to go over here and make more money. The UFC has put me in a position where I don’t have to worry about making money when I leave here.

Ryan Smith 1:32:30
He’s fighting for the love of it now. So so but that’s it. I think that that’s where we’re we’ll we’ll leave this, you know, is right here. Because I think that all of us can agree that like him or not good or bad. The UFC is here to stay. And it is well positioned going into 2021. We are here. This is it guys. This is the last show of the year. And so what I want to say is, I want to thank you, or getting on this because we started this was we started in in what was it December of 2019 with doing video shows like this, and we committed to doing these video shows. And so I want to thank all of you for making time out to do this show with me every single week on video and making those sacrifices that we need to make in order to provide a great show for the fans out there. So thank you all of you for for for being here with me and being my co host Thank you most

John Keyes 1:33:37
right fans, I want to take aisle 12 our fans out there. Well. More than that. More than that. I want to thank the fans for actually, you know, taking the time out to come find us to actually you know, watch our watch our shows. I hope we entertain you. I hope we you come away. laughing. I’ll become away informed. I hope you come away one to know more. If anything, so will we as long as you guys are around. We will be around unless I have superpowers in the morning. If I have superpowers in the morning. I don’t know today. Today, today, today is day two grand Mutasa. And I’m kind of afraid because I sleep right underneath the ceiling fan. And if I had the power to fly, it’s gonna suck. Okay, cuz I’m gonna flow right up into it. It’s not good. I’ve seen what happened when people get hit in the head with the ceiling fan. It’s not a good thing.

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:34:35
For me, my hope from the show is I for a long time have had this one one marketing campaign. My goal is next year to not have to worry about that one on one marketing campaign. We just grow exponentially.

Ryan Smith 1:34:49
Alright, George, anything you want to say before we sign off for the year?

George Stallworth 1:34:53
Man, I am definitely looking forward to the new year. Um, I think we as a whole as the show have had An awesome year man I look at some of the accomplishments we’ve made you know some of our first interviews, like you said going to video from audio just to tighten up help just looking at Ryan setup right now. Just this alone. Yeah, you get what I’m saying like this breath, we’re winning no matter what. And I only expect greater and better things from us in 2021 Casey is going to show back up in Dallas and come train and take a fight. Um, you know, john

John Keyes 1:35:33
amen to that

George Stallworth 1:35:36
john Key’s is gonna be breaking us off with all of the very long very little known facts as well as some of the conspiracy theories. Ryan Smith, love you brother. Thank you for giving us all this opportunity to basically to talk about something we love greatly. Yeah, look, we’re starting the year off I want to win already. Guys, you guys are going to ref I’m not referee but you guys are going to judge fights for Fury kickboxing January 16 coming up. What do you have to say about it?

Ryan Smith 1:36:09
I’m it’s I’m excited about that. Yes. So we’re you know, I don’t I think we haven’t agreed we either coming back on the fourth or the swelled a fourth of the 11th something like that. Looks like we lost cholesky so we’re either coming back on the on the fourth or the the 11th something like that. But we will be gearing up for the fury kickboxing fights on on the 16th of January we’re going to be reffing Muay Thai kickboxing, it’s going to be exciting. It’s going to be great. We’re going to be able to talk about it as much as as much as we can. Maybe we’ll even be able to put some of it on on the internet. I don’t know what that what the rules will be. Or whether or not we can we can livestream while we’re there. So, um, find us on social media. On Instagram. I’m at combat sports talk. junkies.

John Keyes 1:37:06
I’m a keys to victory and s keys with ky ky. Yes. And and George

George Stallworth 1:37:14
Darkseid underscore muy Thai underscore,

Ryan Smith 1:37:18
like it says on the shirt.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:20
Love that shirt, bro.

Ryan Smith 1:37:23
And in Casey, who looks like he is back now.

George Stallworth 1:37:26

Ryan Smith 1:37:27
let’s see here. Nope. It looks like we got a placeholder for him. There he is.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:31

Ryan Smith 1:37:32
what’s your what’s your Instagram?

Kelechi Onyebuchi 1:37:34
My Instagram is at push pull, pray.

Ryan Smith 1:37:39
Alright, and you can also find us on our website at www combat sports. talk.com. We are on all of your favorite social media platforms. I want to send a shout out to MMA junkie MMA fighting MMA mania bloody elbow and the intelligent defense discussion group MMA discussion on Facebook. So definitely if you enjoyed the conversation and the debates that we had here on the show, come and join us on the intelligent defense discussion group on Facebook and and and let us know what you think on a host of MMA topics. On behalf of john Key’s Collette. You take Casey only a Buchi and George g money Stallworth. My name is Ryan Smith, reminding you to keep your hands up, your chin tucked and throw bombs. We’ll see you in 2021

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