Episode 158 – Megan Anderson, Lightweight Logjam and UFC Vegas 18: Overeem vs Volkov

Megan Anderson was the topic of discussion this week when two of her fellow UFC fighters discussed having intercourse with her on a podcast.  This episode we discuss this incident, react to whether any of it was appropriate and discuss whether the apology was sufficient.  We discuss the logjam at the top of the Lightweight division, the attractiveness of a scarred face and we preview UFC Vegas 18: Overeem vs. Volkov.

Transcript

Ryan Smith 0:01
Hey there fight fans. Don’t forget to like, share and subscribe. This episode of combat sports talk.

Welcome to combat sports talk, a podcast dedicated to UFC and military discussion, the MMA community and combat sports in general. I’m your host, Ryan Smith. And joining me this week is the man with the keys to victory john key.

John Keyes 0:36
Hello, everybody. How’s it going tonight?

Ryan Smith 0:39
All right. And the coach to the stars George g money stalwart.

George Stallworth 0:45
All right. All right.

Unknown Speaker 0:46
All right. All right. How y’all doing?

Ryan Smith 0:49
Really good. Doing good.

Unknown Speaker 0:52
All right, today,

Ryan Smith 0:53
we’re going to learn today. So we got it. We got a great show. I’m pretty excited about all the topics we can get a little controversial up in here. But before we do, today is a special day and john keys is going to talk to us about it. So here it is. Roll your john keys trivia knowledge of the day.

John Keyes 1:15
Okay, so today is the first day of Black History Month. Okay. freedoms days for for those who are out there, but we’re going to talk about something near and dear to, to me, which is the Black Panther. All right. We know not the panther party because, you know, that’s a little too controversial. Let’s talk about the character Black Panther to chala, if you will. May, he was created in 1966. A lot of people thought that the Black Panther was originally was originally named after the Black Panther Party, but in reality, Stan Lee and jack Kirby named him the Black Panther way before then, it was just a total coincidence. He was actually supposed to be named the cold tiger. He was one of the first black one of the first African American characters in Marvel Comics actually appearing in the fantastic 466 the Panthers rage. Also one of the first African American characters to have their own title be originally the first one going to Luke Cage, believe it or not another black, a black superhero. Which if you haven’t been watching the Netflix, Luke Cage, you’re definitely missing out. Um, movie made made strives billions of millions of dollars from Marvel making a part two. It was actually beautifully brought to life by Chadwick boseman. Who, that man right there in this, in the short span of his life, have played some very iconic characters, including Jackie Robinson. James Brown, several others. And that’s all I got for today. Come back in seven days, and I have something crazier.

Ryan Smith 3:13
Okay. So I got one question for you.

John Keyes 3:15
Yes.

Ryan Smith 3:16
If the Black Panther was from What conda? Yeah, and what conda was in Africa? Can you classify him as African American?

John Keyes 3:31
Yes, actually, I can. I’m gonna tell you how. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 3:35
I don’t dispute him, but I’m gonna let him go ahead. All right, I

Ryan Smith 3:38
see what he got. I know

John Keyes 3:39
how, because he did become a naturalized citizen in the end of volume three of the Black Panther comics, the one that that the that the Black Panther movie was most influenced by that was a 1998 series. And it was the first time we saw every Kay Ross in there. It was it’s a it’s probably the best version of the Black Panther comics out there. If you can find it. I advise you to get it by trade paperback because that entire that entire volume was pure genius. Okay, it like I said, it is what they base the entire Black Panther that we see on the Marvel Cinematic Universe on and on top of that, not only was he was he a naturalized citizen, because he did spend several years here, here in America as a on a student visa, but when he came back and became an Avenger, 101 Henry, Oh, God, Henry guy, Rick. Our bumps are Peter Garrett. He was the he was the Avengers liaison. He sat there and said that he had to become an American.

Ryan Smith 4:48
All I gotta say is how was the king of Wakanda gonna become an American citizen. Like that doesn’t even seem right. Like, but I don’t want to know how

George Stallworth 4:58
colonizers Ryan, he’s No, no,

Ryan Smith 5:00
no, no, no, no, no, we don’t stop.

John Keyes 5:05
Coming to America isn’t the sun as an African Prince, and coming to America Part Two? Isn’t he an American as his mother

Ryan Smith 5:16
was an American? Okay, well, I don’t know. I don’t know. But I think I think things that we need things to make you go. Hmm. Anyway

John Keyes 5:28
also,

Ryan Smith 5:29
no, no, we’re done. We’re done. that nobody’s gonna watch this if we just keep if we if we turn this into the Black Panther comic book, podcast. We got to talk about combat sports talk. It’s pretty awesome.

George Stallworth 5:46
Definitely was able to what’s the word? He was a legitimate combat sports artists or martial artists.

Ryan Smith 5:54
Yeah, he was a super soldier. Thanks to that, that violets. It Listen. Listen, this is the super soldier.

George Stallworth 6:01
We really had to get Ryan we really got to get Ryan up on his comic book lingo. It was not a super soldier per se.

Ryan Smith 6:11
per se.

John Keyes 6:12
Let me let me correct you George Actually, he was the he was the first Super Soldier because believe it or not, the the heartshaped herb is what the Germans you it was the German trying to use to make their super soldier which cap which, actually, it was a doctor Earth game who defected to the US to make the Super Soldier here. So actually, they they once again, colonizers bit off off Africa once again.

George Stallworth 6:46
You can break that crow but now all you want. Tonight I’m gonna do my research. Number one number one other technically would have been the first Super Soldier then and they were way way before so again, I don’t think to tala himself was an actual Super Soldier per se.

Ryan Smith 7:05
All right, no. All I know is that I today I happen to watch a bunch of behind the scenes, Black Panther videos and the director of Black Panther said that to Charla was a super soldier, director of the movie said

George Stallworth 7:27
I again, I’m gonna argue with that because there is a lineage of Black Panthers and you can’t really call them super soldiers because they preceded the Super Soldier program period. Point blank. There is a Aeon of super what I guess you call you guys I call them super soldiers. I wouldn’t call them that.

John Keyes 7:48
Okay, some called supercharged warriors. That the heartshaped herb was what the Germans were trying to base their research off of to create their super soldier because to Chaka was, was who Captain America originally met and got his butt kicked by how that you know, and that’s how they became aware that there that that the Black Panther was the original the progenitor the ideal in which the Super Soldier program came from when you saw Captain America and Black Panther and in the Avengers, endgame and Infinity War fight together that was a circle coming that was just a circle coming together.

Ryan Smith 8:35
We have we have got to get into the content of the show guys. We can’t just keep going on with the with the with the Black Panther and comic books. This is not

John Keyes 8:46
Congress talk. We could we could sit here and talk I talk all the all the greatness that fantasy piece stuff comes on the lows you still going

Ryan Smith 8:56
this is you still going? I know this bit. This bit me all right. JOHN is gonna keep going even though I’m like Okay, stop. He gonna keep going.

George Stallworth 9:06
On that note. Dude, how are we gonna get into the next segment?

Ryan Smith 9:12
We need to go and wait for

John Keyes 9:15
segue.

Ryan Smith 9:18
Speaking of talking, going too far on a topic on a podcast, let’s get into our headline. Number one topic of the day this is finding the angles.

All right, this is finding the angles is where we talked about the headlines that are making waves in the MMA world. And the thing that’s been making the most head headlines in this week was a something that was said on a podcast. So let’s get into our headliner.

All right now, what’s super popular these days is everybody has a podcast. I mean, literally everybody. Fans have podcasts, like us. fighters have podcasts. Retired fighters have podcasts, sports casters have podcasts. Everybody has podcasts. And so one podcast that that we’re going to talk about is a podcast that is co hosted by sugar. Sean O’Malley. Let me let me pull up on the run sheet. The name of this The name of this show his Timbo sugar show. All right? And so he is he is having an episode. He’s having an episode, where he’s got Casey Kenny, who is a current UFC fighter, and they’re talking about a whole bunch of things, just a bunch of guys sitting around talking. And so they’re talking about heroin and all kinds of stuff like that. And then Sean O’Malley, his co host, tosses a question over to Sean O’Malley’s coach in this guy’s Shawn O’Malley’s coach tosses a question over to Casey Kenny. Asking Casey Kenny, if he would be interested in having intercourse with UFC women’s flyweight Megan Anderson.

George Stallworth 11:34
Call it like it was said. Say it like he minute. He asked him would he smash?

Ryan Smith 11:40
I will see I’m trying to guess trying to keep it keep it.

John Keyes 11:43
Are we talking? Are we talking about smash

Ryan Smith 11:46
No. intercourse?

George Stallworth 11:49
For purposes a context of the conversation, I think it’s important that we use the vernacular that was used in order to appropriately address the topic. Because there is a difference between you know, Hey, would you like to, you know, make sweet passionate love? Or would you like to go out on a date is a lot different from Hey, would you smash Megan? Anderson? vastly different?

Ryan Smith 12:15
Yeah. Okay. It’s vastly different. So that was what the question was, you know, and and so, when it was asked, Would you smash Megan Anderson or no, Casey Kenny says, probably not, man. She’s too. She’s not too well. And then so well says Be honest. And then he says, I mean, if it came down to it, and it was like 5am, or she’s a 5am, or 4am, or they all start laughing. You know. And so, and so this is all happening on the podcast. And you know, Megan Anderson, happens to find out about this, perhaps she was even watching this podcast. You know, because sugar Sean O’Malley, he’s a super popular fighter. There’s a lot of people who follow Him and follow his his CBD and, you know, his promotion of marijuana as as legalization of marijuana. And so he’s a popular figure in the UFC. And so it makes sense that other people will follow him. What do you say George?

George Stallworth 13:19
and Casey Kenny is fighting on the same card that she’s gonna be fighting on. So it also makes sense that, you know, during the time when fighters are getting ready to fight like this, that on similar cards, that any media flack is going to, you know, circulate amongst those fighters on that card. I’m going to hear about the things that are going on with anybody else on the same card as me.

Ryan Smith 13:40
Exactly. And so and so in watching this, Megan Anderson posts the video to Twitter, and says, I guess in a line of work, where you can publicly talk about whatever, whether you’d have sex with a co worker is utterly degrading, in an utterly degrading way and face zero consequences. I mean, let me reread that because I completely believe that I guess MMA is a line of work where you can publicly talk about whether you’d have sex with a co worker in an utterly degrading way and face zero consequences, disgusting behavior, and it’s unfortunate that he’ll be fighting on my card in March. So Megan Anderson said that and and and it really sent a shockwave through the MMA world and and fractured the fan base, because part of the fan base was like, Listen, that is completely unacceptable. That is out of bounds. We shouldn’t be talking about our female athletes in this sport like that. The other half of the fan base was like, Listen, this is a comedy podcast. These are guys talking. This is what guys talk about. Why are you being so sensitive? And so you know, there are a lot of people on either side of the fence. For me personally, I was on the side of the fence of, you know, these female athletes are fighting so hard to One get legitimacy in a male dominated sport. And to that, the last thing they need is to be objectified in a way where their co workers are talking about having sex with them. And so, you know, I, I stood firmly on Megan Anderson side, but there are other people who didn’t agree with me. So I wanted to see what your guys’s thoughts were on this whole situation, whether you thought it was appropriate, whether you think that there are exceptions to the rule that perhaps we shouldn’t talk this way. And you know, what, what, what some of your reactions were on what you might have heard on this topic?

George Stallworth 15:39
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I’d like to take this as an opportunity to plug something called intelligent defense is a form that we have, that we created here at combat sports talk, and this is where this compensation for us at least, really kicked off. I think Ryan posted the question, and I was one of the first ones to respond. And I just post the counter argument. You know, I definitely say that first and foremost, I don’t agree with the comments made on the podcast in regards to Megan Anderson. But I play counterpoint to it as well saying, Hey, this is a podcast, whose purpose is comedic relief, whose purpose is entertainment. And it is a it’s it’s a spectacle. And with that being said, this is not a podcast, run by ESPN, the UFC, or any any of the affiliates of either of those brands. This is a podcast that’s put on I think, by sugar, Shane O’Malley, and a few other guys in and again, we understand in the podcast world, there’s a vast array of podcasts, some of them, you would consider newsworthy. Some of them you would consider just garbage. You know. This is one of those podcasts. I think that floats on the other end of the spectrum in terms of its newsworthiness, but because of who runs the podcast, it catches a different light, it has a lot, a lot larger audience than, say, some of the other podcasts that have similar content. So that was my first take on it was like, Hey, you know, this is a podcast, it’s comedy, it’s whatever, whatever, whatever. We’re being a little bit too critical about what’s going on there. You know, the same way we don’t charge comedians for everything they say, because it’s comedy. That was my take on it originally. And I think I began posting it in the intelligent defense form. But right around that same time, I had an opportunity to talk with one of my female fighters on my fight team, and I posed the question to her, how do you feel about this? What’s your thoughts on this? And why? And it you know, it really took me aback her response to it. You know, she she told me, yes, she she is offended by it. And for the sake of Megan Anderson, as well, I keep wanting to say a levy, for some reason, but it’s not making a leave is Megan Anderson. But what she told me was there were two specific points that she brought up. One, the fact that this conversation, gave no thought consideration or anything to Megan Anderson’s ability to consent or not consent to a sexual encounter with a guy such as Casey Kenny, gimme. Right. And so she said, that’s the first part the it objectifies a woman, because she’s not even in the conversation to talk about necessarily her consent. How do we not know whether or not Megan Anderson thanks, Casey Kenny is is a, you know, a three on a scale of one to 10 and would never even consider thinking about him. And that’s part of the problem in the compensation that objectification is that she doesn’t even get a seat at the table in this conversation. The second part was, I think it goes back to the object objectification of this person’s body. Here we are talking about a sexual interlude our sexual soiree with someone encounter with someone, and the only what’s the word I’m looking for? I think the word use was Smash. And this goes back to the objectification of another person for sexual purposes. It’s not like, Hey, we’re thinking these people are in a relationship or anything like this. This is simply Hey, would you smash this? And so that in its in and of itself creates this dynamic that’s so different, you know, you think about it in terms of regular work environment. It’s one thing to think about your co worker and say, Oh, she’s beautiful, or Oh, she’s hot, or all those things. That’s a normal conversation that people may or may not have at work. And it’s it then it’s not based upon, you know, solely a sexual desire or anything like that. It is, it is about that person’s, I guess beauty, their face or whatever attributes we find beautiful in them. In this case, it was nothing about about any attributes about her, it was strictly would you smash, it was totally sexualized from the beginning. And without her having a seat at the table. And so that those were the points basically that one of my female fighters brought up to me. And I couldn’t help but you know, sit down and think about it in terms of that, because we don’t you never hear of a female podcast where someone’s being interviewed, and we toss out a question to a female, Hey, would you smash Anderson Silva? Or Hey, would you smash Michael Bisping? Or would you smash Tyron Woodley?

It’s never even been thought of like, we you’ve never heard anything like that. And you won’t hear anything like that. And there’s a reason for that. And it goes to talk about the discrepancy or the the, the the unequal playing field that there is out there when it comes to two men and women. So those were the takes that she really made me step back and and take into account man, and it really kind of changed my idea on the topic. All right, but I do have some caveats in this as well. Casey Kenney is the one being vilified for this. But this question was taught was, was tossed out there by someone else, and I think that person deserves as much if not more vilification in this situation. Because all Casey did was answer a question that was asked of him, you get what I’m saying? He, he probably had no idea when he walked into that room on that show that he was going to be asked, Hey, would you smash Megan Anderson? And so in terms of the vilification of him, I think that’s a little bit unfair, it is kind of like ambush journalism to some degree. And I think the person that asked that question is it should be is just as much if not more responsible for that behavior in that take on that.

Ryan Smith 21:56
That’s Tim Welsh, by the way. All right. I wanna, I want to get over to john, john, you kind of heard this now you you’ve had an opportunity to kind of think through your reaction. What are your thoughts on this topic?

John Keyes 22:14
Well, I did see the topic on intelligence defense, I intentionally bypassed it. For the simple fact that I understand where your fighters coming from. I woke it. Let me rephrase that. I heard and I understood what she said. Okay. Um, at the same time, I add, I do blame KC Kenny. I understand why he’s being vilified. Because it’s not the fact that the question was thrown out. It was the fact how he answered. Okay, if you he people vilifying him is the reason is because he answered the question. He answered it. That type of conversation is it’s one of those conversations that should have been thought through a little bit better than that. Okay. It shouldn’t have been it. That’s why it’s conversations that you don’t have in a public stream. Well, I’m not gonna say it doesn’t happen. People talk like this all the time. All right. Both men and women. Men just happened to be busted this time. Okay. With that, john? Yes.

George Stallworth 23:34
But you bring up the point. I mean, I don’t think that he, in coming on that show that he had any idea he was going to be asked if he was kind of ambushed in the way. And I but I don’t mean amberson in terms of like, oh, he was set up. What I’m saying is when he walked into the studio that day, just like now with me, you unwind? Y’all have no idea what question I may turn around and ask you, that will put you in a bad position it right. And that’s what I think happened with him. I don’t think he had any idea somebody was about to ask him something like that. And then it would become such a firestorm. Yeah, you know what to say about him not answering it. But his initial answer was just simply No, I wouldn’t do that or whatever. Ryan Ryan, I guess clarified his words. But then he went back and tried to clean it up a little bit later and say, Well, you know, if it was four o’clock in the morning, five o’clock in the morning, that part was different. But his initial response was simply No, I wouldn’t. And I didn’t see anything wrong with his response there. The question itself was wrong. His answer Initially, I didn’t see a problem. But then when he when he began to clarify, and I think what was at stake there, Ryan? Well, maybe it was four or five in the morning.

Ryan Smith 24:44
Yeah. So to go back to the transcript again, he says, Tim Welsh says would you smash Megan Anderson or no, Casey, Kate. Casey responds, probably not man. She’s not too and he pauses and says, well, Tim Welsh says Be honest. And then Casey Kenny says, I mean, if it came down to it, and it was like 5am or four, she’s a 5am or before a hammer, and then they start laughing. And then he’s just even it goes into it. He’s like, just us to hanging out like eff it. Let’s do it. And then, Tim, well, she’s like, she’s piggybacking you to her room. He says, Yeah, like effort. And then Tim, well says, Yeah, for sure.

John Keyes 25:25
That that was the exchange. So once again, he takes the if I throw the ball at you, okay. It depends on what you do with that ball. All right. I’m not I’m not saying Tim Walsh is totally absolved of the situation, by far now. Okay. He once again, do we blame howard stern for the vulgar stuff that he says? Yes, we do. I did. We did we did we blame Imus for some of the things that he said? Yes, we did. So well, just just as as just as in that group, too. You should have known better. And I’ll say the same thing for case again, you should have known better because you could, the people are jumping on him because he should have shut it down. Now, as far as my personal opinion on this, certain conversations are going to be some are going to be said that’s immaterial. Okay. People have their preferences. However, not all, not all conversations are meant to be heard. And this was definitely one of those conversations that was not meant to be that shouldn’t have been heard. So in fact that you put it out there, you threw yourself to the lions pit. You got what you got, homie. Okay. Now, as far as somebody wants to say, Well, you know, this is a blow to, to women’s live, or if you want to make it a political situation, you can do that, you can do that. But in the grand scheme of things, how does that affect your ability? Okay, we have we, you know, people go through, through people talking behind their back, talking in their face, saying all sorts of crazy things to them. Now, the lack of respect is one thing. And I’m pretty sure that Megan and Casey need to have a conversation about respect, that can happen, that should happen. However, the rest of the trash talk is just that trash. ignore it. So walk by it.

Ryan Smith 27:45
So I wanna I want to hop in. I want to hop in on this because because I do have I do have some problems with with what you’re saying. Do you recognize the name Donald Sterling?

John Keyes 27:59
No, I do not know, top my head.

Ryan Smith 28:00
Donald Sterling is a former owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, who got caught on record saying very bad things about black players and his biracial girlfriend. And and and the reason why I bring him up is because those are conversations that were not intended to be heard by the public. But were absolutely necessary to be heard by the public so that we could have an open discourse about why those conversations and the things that were being said, are wrong and inappropriate. The fact is, is that we owe our females in our society, the protection and the right and the space to operate equally with us, whether that is in the workplace, or if that’s in the octagon, and those conversations are taking place by men, it does not affect their ability to fight, but it does affect their ability to be taken seriously. Because if people are still talking about them, or their sexual value, then they are not considering them equal participants and combatants in the ring.

John Keyes 29:22
Hence, why Casey and Megan need to have that conversation about respect. Okay, that’s what that boils down to. That. You know, as far as I’m concerned, you know, and and people understand. I was raised on women’s live, okay, if if you if a woman can do it, if a man can do it, a woman can do it to acceptance, scientific biological situations, okay. Man can have man can have kids, okay? That that type that’s immaterial. I always believe If you can do it, do it. Okay. I have much respect for women, women fighters, as much as I have respect for men fighters. Now, if I do if you do see an idiot out there that is talking, you know, in a in an inappropriate way, okay? If you don’t feel if you personally don’t feel that, you know, and that the way that they’re talking is appropriate, you can correct them. That’s fine Freedom, freedom of speech does not, you know, it’s from the government, not from your neighbor. All right, you can walk up and say, Hey, man, that’s not cool. All right.

Ryan Smith 30:39
But we have to agree, we have to agree that that’s that, that you have that it’s our responsibility to go up and say, That’s not cool. And so what ended up happening on that show? was not someone saying that’s not cool, it was actually owned, and, and, and fed. And what we have is we’ve got a portion of our MMA audience who are like, Yeah, that’s great. And it’s like, No, we should as a community, who is supposed to be built on the tenets of martial arts, and that includes respect to see our our our female athletes as, as people worthy of respect actually, perhaps, because it is at this time, more difficult to be legitimize as a female fighter, and not to be objectified as as, as as a sexual object, we owe them a responsibility to ensure that they are not having to be subjected to this. And so by not, by not coming down on Tim Welch and not coming down on Casey, Kenny, and and and other people who talk like this, what we do is we continue to perpetuate and slow the change that absolutely needs to happen for us to see the equality that we want to see in this area of sports.

John Keyes 32:08
Okay, so you’re saying, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, that if one male fighter, and another it talks trash about another male fighter, that the most respectful thing that they can do is go and talk to each other and hash that hash it out? That’s fine. Let’s say hypothetically,

Ryan Smith 32:29
you characterize it as talking trash. And so the only reason why I’m interrupting you is because I don’t know that we can call this talking trash. So you may have to define or clarify what you mean by talking trash because this is sexual innuendo, which goes beyond talking trash.

John Keyes 32:47
Okay, so if you degrade another person for either their age, sex, nationality, or their orientation, is that is that good enough? Is it? All right, under those parameters? Okay. Let’s say that hypothetically speaking, and that one fighter, you know, calls another fighter gay. Okay, and not in the hat and not in the, in the, you know, in the nice way. All right, on on a podcast. If that would it? Would it? Would it be? Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for the fire that was called gay to approach the other fighter? And that then to have that conversation? Okay. Cuz I totally say that’s what needs to happen. Not. In this case, we got one fighter talking trash to another fighter. I’m not looking at the person’s gender. I’m not looking at their, their, their age, race, creed, whatever. We have one fighter that’s talking trash to another fighter. That fighter needs to go had that that respectful talk that talk about respect to? Well, because okay. I want to

George Stallworth 34:14
because this trash talk is not a mano a mano a person a person. This is a gender and dear thing, this person. The only reason this person is even in this conversation is because she has a vagina.

John Keyes 34:30
Okay, you get

George Stallworth 34:31
what I’m saying?

John Keyes 34:32
I hear you. I hear you. And so that’s that’s

George Stallworth 34:36
what, that’s what makes it that’s what makes it a community issue or a protection of women issue. Because we wouldn’t be we wouldn’t be having this conversation if not for her sex, or specific sex or gender.

John Keyes 34:57
Okay, and I’ll see you guys soon. The way I see it is that you guys are making this a gender on gender issue. I’m making this as a fighter, talking trash to another fighter issue. Am I wrong for for seeing it that way? You’re making it a level playing ground?

Ryan Smith 35:15
Yes, you don’t make your eye let me, let me hop in here because I do think you’re wrong for for for trying to level this playing field because the reason why this is wrong is because the playing field is uneven, because there is this this objectification of female athletes, specifically in this sport versus the male athletes by by taking the the whole notion of gender out, then what ends up happening is, then it becomes it takes out the issue that that we’re trying to talk about. And and and, and that’s, that’s that’s kind of a moot point at that point. The reason I this is the reason why this is an issue is because the playing field is not equal because there’s objectification and misogyny within our sport. And this is this is this this has been condoned as acceptable behavior by a portion of our of the MMA fan base. And by taking that that part out, then you’re to to what what Sonia says here is you’re dismissive about the actual issue here.

Unknown Speaker 36:28
I like it, I like

John Keyes 36:30
to almost before before I go any further, no one not being not being dismissive of the issue. Ryan, you actually said that. That’s, that’s it is uneven. Okay. So how do we even a playing field, if we’re going to continuously keep it on even how we’re going to open it up? This

George Stallworth 36:52
plays into my point? I want to take you guys back to Jackie Robinson.

John Keyes 36:57
Okay. When he when he

George Stallworth 36:58
baseball? Well, yes, yes, it’s a little bit apples to oranges split. Jackie Robinson had to endure all this crazy talk when when he migrated into white baseball. different people, different baseball players hated on him, called him all kinds of inwards, all these racial slurs and things that were going on. And he had to take that and deal with it. It’s a very similar situation in that they weren’t after him on the terms of, Hey, this is an even playing field playing field, you came from the Negro Leagues. And now you’re in this league, it had nothing to do with data, it was all about an issue that he had no control over whatsoever. His color, much like Megan, she has no control over the fact that she was born a woman, she had no control over the conversation that was taking place as well. And this conversation was derogatory in the sense that it like I like I said, it goes back it objectifies her as a as a human being, as a sexual object. Although, and like I said, a couple of days ago, I was on the other side of this argument. I was much like you, john, I really had to sit down and go through the nuance and and figure it out myself, after talking to different women and getting a different perspective on it, and putting myself in that position too. But that’s what I want you to take it back to think of it in terms of Jackie Robinson and and the racial disparities that he endured. And how that played out for him. It is, it’s not the same, but there are some similarities. And what we

Ryan Smith 38:33
can do to make it the same is then say, okay, so they said all of these in words and things about Jackie Robinson. So let’s pull race out. And it’s really just a baseball player trying to get in the head of another baseball player. That’s really what it is at the end of the day. And so at that point, then, you know, Jackie Robinson should just have a conversation with these white baseball players who are calling this inward, because really, they’re just trying to get in their head by taking race out of the equation, then it basically sanitizes it to fair game. And this is something that is fundamentally not fair game, it is so far out of bounds that we as males, in this sport, or followers of this sport, have to stand up and say, we do not accept this conversation, this type of conversation. And we have we have to speak about it in the in the closed doors, we have to defend it in the closed doors, or else it will never get better. You can’t just do it when everybody’s watching.

John Keyes 39:36
Okay, so with that said, what do we do then? Do we cancel our KC? Do we cancel them out? Do we kick them out? Do we kick them out of the UFC? Is he suspended? No. Well, Nick, or do we give him give him and Megan a locker room Let them and let them deal with that.

Ryan Smith 40:04
Technically. And we’re kind of skipping over the one thing. And so it’s important for our listeners to know that I saw somewhere that 90 minutes after Megan posted her thing, Casey Kinney posted an apology on Twitter. The apology says, I’m sorry, this upsets you, I will be more careful with my words. I was just answering a question. I thought it was all a joking matter. I see I was wrong. And I’m sorry, best of luck with training camp and your fight. So this came out. About an hour and a half after Megan posted her her disapproval. Casey hit Kenny posted his his apology. Do you think that that is sufficient now? Or do you think that they’re more should be done?

John Keyes 40:55
Now, it’s not sufficient that needs to be face to face. That needs to be a face to face conversation. Talk if you talk if you I’m sorry, I’m sorry. But if you talk and be careful what you say and how you say, because it will always come back to you. I was told to that by my one of my best friends. I was told to told that by my elders, and it stayed true to this day. Be careful what you say how you say it will come back to you. And after that, how you gonna deal with it. The best thing that Casey can do is actually walk Go go go step to her, and really sincerely apologize in her face. So there could be no misconstrued. Okay, we, we saw how he was talking on the podcast, he needs to apologize in the face. So she can see the sincerity. And it’s up to her on whether she accepts it or not. Is that Oh,

Ryan Smith 41:53
so what I would say and I posted this, in response to, I can’t remember which there was another female fighter who spoke out about this, I posted it in response to her, I could probably go back and find it. But what I said was, if you said it, if you did her wrong in public, then you need to apologize in the same way. So so I would or bigger like you, you know. And so that is what’s going to build that bridge and repair what has been broken, sending a tweet. That’s nice, you acknowledge the fact that you saw it, but it is not sufficient in my in my opinion, because it is easy to it is easy to to write a tweet and to craft it, and to edit it until you got it just right, and just send it out so that you’re not necessarily accepting full blame or responsibility for it. When you come up. And let’s say after his fight, like this is what I would love to see. So Casey, Kenny, if you’re watching this, this is what I’d love to see you do. If you win your fight. And they ask you a question post fight, make your apology there, she’s gonna be in the back, she’s gonna be able to hear you, she’s gonna be in the sound of your voice. If you haven’t been able to see her, as john is saying in the back, getting warmed up or whatever. And you haven’t been able to make your apology there, make it in the ring on the mic in front of the world to see that you are sorry for doing what you did. Because you said it in public. You said it on the podcast on a mic, get on a mic and say it says say your apology. That’s what I would want to see

John Keyes 43:22
that that that is that would be and be sincere about it. That is the best thing that you can do at this point, because you’ve already said it. You’ve already made it known how you felt be sincere in your apology.

Ryan Smith 43:36
All right, George, what do you think?

George Stallworth 43:38
I like that. You know, I, you know, one of the one of the things that we talked about on the forum was about canceled culture. And that’s what, you know, you saw there was a lot of back and forth between different folks, because that’s more of what the topic became about as a result of the initial conversation. And what you’re saying there the the idea you have kind of takes out the whole idea of canceled culture. This is him trying to make amends and doing the right thing, as opposed to us saying, Okay, well, Casey can’t you’re no longer in the UFC, you shouldn’t be on a microphone, and we never want to hear from you again or your band. So I think

John Keyes 44:17
that’s going to a different level. The I think the offense that was made is a personal one. He didn’t get graphic with it. He answered the question. He the best he can do at this point is asked for her forgiveness, not for our

George Stallworth 44:33
forgiveness.

Ryan Smith 44:35
So in the in the Twitter thread that stems from Megan Anderson’s post, there is a Twitter a Twitter person named Lucas Middlebrook. Lucas Middlebrook says that the UFC athlete conduct policy as of 2018 would seem to prohibit such conduct assuming the UFC chooses to enforce its own policy. So I have the UFC standards of conduct that that Lucas Middlebrook posted. And so it’s interesting because it says and and in in the intelligent defense discussion group on Facebook, there was someone saying, well, these are independent contractors. Yes as the UFC is highest profile independent contractors and as ambassadors of the sport of mixed martial arts athletes are held to a high standard by the UFC, the media and the public. responsible conduct advances the interests of the sport, UFC and the athletes. Conversely, irresponsible conduct by an athlete tarnishes the reputation of both the affected athlete and the UFC and undermines the positive in an image set by other athletes. Here’s where it gets to the point of what should happen to Casey Kenny. While criminal activity by an athlete is clearly detrimental to the reputation of the UFC and they’re therefore subjects the athlete to sanctions, other conduct can also result in potential sanctions. In the event an athlete engages in derogatory or offensive conduct, including, without limitation, insulting language, symbols or actions about a person’s person’s ethnic background, heritage, color, race, national national origin, age, religion, disability, gender or sexual orientation. Such conduct will result in sanctions in the form of contractual reduction from the athlete’s purse or his or her next bout. So, if the UFC enforces their policy, then we should see Casey Kinney lose a percentage of his next purse.

John Keyes 46:39
I can’t be mad at that. 25% coming up off your check homie. Better win. That’s all I got to say. But it’s in the contract it is what it is.

Ryan Smith 46:51
The thing is, is that the UFC has been terrible about enforcing these things because Conor McGregor, which we talked about a lot, and I’m sure Collette you would have been would have loved to hear me talk bad about Conor McGregor. Conor has said some ridiculous bad things in public about people specifically, look, Floyd Mayweather and Habiba. murga Madoff. He has not gotten any kind of punishment. So there’s a there’s a there’s a there’s a term historical term called salutary, neglect, salutary neglect, where you have a policy, but you intentionally do not enforce it. And this is what we see in the UFC, which is they have this policy, it is written down, it’s been in effect for three years. And you’ve got people who are continuing to break the policy without regard of any type of consequence. So I doubt anything will happen, actually, to Casey Kenny, because Dana White has been clear about his position that he cannot control what his athletes say. And unless it comes down hard on the UFC, the only way that you’re going to see an athlete get sanctioned or otherwise have consequences. And and, and, you know, Casey Kenny’s a lower tier fighter. So you know, if the UFC loses this fighter, it’s not like it’s it’s a sweat off their back, unlike Conor McGregor. I think it’s unfortunate all the way around.

John Keyes 48:21
This a suck situation.

Ryan Smith 48:23
It is. But I want to say this was a great conversation, I thought I really wanted us to have it really want us to go in and, and and investigate it at different angles sometimes. And for the audience out there. Sometimes we have to, in order for us to be fair to the topic, we have to take different perspectives in order to represent those perspectives on the show. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that any of us actually agree or defend or condone what was said by Tim Welsh, or Casey, Casey Kenny, in this in on the show, but in order for us to show the entire entirety of the argument, we do have to represent those positions. Let’s go on to a new topic, log jam at 155 pounds. And we were talking about this last week, because once Conor McGregor got knocked out by by by Justin boy, he really threw a lot of flux into the 155 pounds, you know, five pound division and and and the thing is, that’s like, you guys get to see me and friend of the show, Johnny hearns go back and forth about what we think the next fights should. Yes, log jam.

George Stallworth 49:45
Ah,

Ryan Smith 49:46
I see what you’re doing there.

George Stallworth 49:48
Um,

Ryan Smith 49:54
you know, look, it got me again. Here’s the thing. We need to We need to try to figure out what’s going to happen, right? matchmakers have a real big problem, because now that Dustin Poirier has moved up into the number one spot taking over Justin he spot. What we have to do is to think about what’s going to be the championship fight. If Habib in America metal relinquishes his tire title and fully, fully retires. And so, in doing so, I’ve been a big fan of Charles Oliveira, fighting dust employee for the new lightweight title, and then Michael Chandler fighting Justin Gachi, who are the number one contendership fighting the winner of Poway vs. aloevera. Well, here’s the thing. The UFC tried to book in 11 days, Charles Oliveira versus Michael Chandler. Now that is shocking, that they were going to put a fight on UFC 258 that has such wide ramifications for the 155 pound division, and it not be a title fight. And so I want to get your reaction to the fact that Charles aloevera turn that fight down his camp said, there’s no way that we are going to be ranked number three on an eight fight with eight fight, win streak, poised for title shot, and then be asked to fight a fight in 11 days where we would need to cut weight from whatever Charles Oliveira walks around that and not have a full camp train or an explosive fighter like Michael Chandler. Like really? No,

John Keyes 51:42
no. Oh, there was smart on that one, man. Don’t do that. All right, that’s poor form on on the UFC for trying to think they were gonna do that. I mean, did. Were they really thinking that they would both be hyped about it? And like, Yeah, let’s do that. No, they know what they’re bringing to the table.

George Stallworth 52:04
I’m sure if you’re Michael Chandler, you like yeah, let’s get this.

John Keyes 52:08
I’m sure. Yeah, I mean, he was no, oh, no, I mean, Michael 10 yet, cuz he, he thinks he can whip everybody down, which is a great attitude to have if you’re trying to be the champion. That is great. But Oliver knows what what you know what he needs to do. He needs to slow that slowed down, get a proper training camp in there, and then go after?

Ryan Smith 52:32
Well, that’s the thing is because Michael Chandler is only one week removed from fighting. Right? So him cutting back to 155 is not going to be that big of a deal. But when you start thinking about the fact that Charles aloevera bought over a month ago, dude, his backup to his walk around wait.

George Stallworth 52:55
Yeah, not only that, you remember they offered a fight a month ago and Dana was like, Oh, no, you know, he needs time to recover after the last weight loss and blah, blah, blah. Why didn’t towels aloe vera get the same? You know? Love?

John Keyes 53:13
Yeah, he wants all hair out the picture. He wants to put Chandler up there against for you. That’s what he wants.

Ryan Smith 53:20
Right? And so and so definitely the trap was set. But But Charles Oliveira and his camp said no, we’re not doing it. We will fight Michael Chandler but we’re gonna do it on a full camp. I personally don’t think that he should fight Michael Chandler because I think he’s well positioned for title shot. I think he should get the title shot. But if he has to fight one more time, which is what lots of people think he should have to do. Then if it if it’s fighting. If it’s fighting Michael Chandler then I say do it but give him a full camp. Put him on that April card. The April cards gonna be huge. Let that be a number three fight. Um, do that. Give him time.

John Keyes 53:59
Oliver has no reason he is on a on a heavy winning streak. He has. He has no other reason to not fight for the championship.

Ryan Smith 54:09
I agree with you.

John Keyes 54:11
He has what Georgia Who else? He got a kill dog? Who else he got to kill?

George Stallworth 54:19
Who else? I don’t know. I don’t I don’t have a straight answer for you. But I don’t feel like Charles has earned the shot yet. Only the only big wins he has are over who Tony Ferguson and Kevin Lee.

John Keyes 54:32
And Kevin Lee of win is still a win. He’s still beat up. He still got a path of destruction behind him. It doesn’t matter if

George Stallworth 54:41
you follow Nick lips like three times it

John Keyes 54:46
is still a man at the end of the day. He still has a body count. Okay.

George Stallworth 54:53
Somebody on body count that’s in the top 10 in that division, please. Yeah. Tony Ferguson. Oh Tom, one guy in the top 10

John Keyes 55:05
just saying man,

Ryan Smith 55:07
Kevin Lee I think was at the time in the in the top 10

John Keyes 55:11
but the whole point being though he’s done he a it’s just the luck of the draw. Alright, somehow someway he made it to number three. We may not like how he got there, but he is there now. Okay. You may not like the quality of how he got there. Guess what? He’s got to prove that he’s there now.

George Stallworth 55:30
Oh Felder has a more legitimate claim on a title shot at 155 then Charles aloevera.

John Keyes 55:37
Okay, where is Paul Felder at right now?

George Stallworth 55:41
Number nine.

John Keyes 55:42
Okay, so with that said, when when it’s all beaten down, and that number nine is in the top five bye bye rank shifting or whichever

Unknown Speaker 55:53
thing Yes, he can get there.

John Keyes 55:55
But guess what, until then, the number three fighter Viet Be it you know Charles Oliveira Be it gillberg be at the Honky Tonk man, whoever is in that number three position is going to forward the championship. Okay, that’s just how it is. I don’t I don’t like it. Because ultimately in the UFC, the ranks don’t matter but guess what? He’s there. He’s gonna go in. He may be going into the to maga but he’s going in there. Alright, that’s just how it is. Well,

Ryan Smith 56:31
so but i i agree with you that if the numbers mean anything, then alveron needs to have that title shot. Versus versus Dustin Boy, that’s employees on a to fight win streak. He’d beat up Conor McGregor he beat up Dan hooker. There you go. Justin, he doesn’t have a fight. His last fight was was for the title against Habib in America metal he got submitted in second round. He needs at least one fight to go and fight for the title. That fight should be against Michael Chandler. If he fights Michael Chandler then the winner of that fight should get get the title shot against the winner of point A and all of your top four. You have your you have it. It’s set.

John Keyes 57:15
Okay, so in this conversation, I can sit there and say that Michael Chandler does not need to be there because he just showed up. But since he’s there, and he’s until he’s tough for you got to give him the fight. This I’m not just

George Stallworth 57:33
that that’s it. That’s another one. How does challenge up to four after beating only though number six guy

John Keyes 57:40
I would say that everybody from from seven all the way to 15 should be one to walk this dude down something fierce. Okay, cuz,

Ryan Smith 57:50
because what was Dan hooker number six?

George Stallworth 57:53
He was number six at the time when he called me up.

Ryan Smith 57:55
Okay. Okay. All right. Yes.

John Keyes 57:59
Yeah, I mean, cuz I’m sorry. I do not agree with with I mean, I’m glad Chandler’s here. But how many you do best at top? 10 not top five. I don’t care if you’re one punching people. Okay, if you’re, if you’re doing a one punch one kill.

Unknown Speaker 58:18
Okay. All I need is one two punch standard.

John Keyes 58:21
Exactly. I don’t care. You still you could start a top 10 because you are a champ. We will grant you the fact that you are a champion in a different in a different company. But you’re here in a different league. You can start in the top 10 not the top 15. But I’ll give you top 10 the problem he could have thought he could have fought Paul Felder. And guess what? If you beat him there, then we can start jumping him up.

Ryan Smith 58:48
The fact is, is that he’s coming in with with a lot of accolades from Bella Torre. He fought the number six guy, but you’re number four guy also lost in Conor McGregor, Conor fell twice. Dan hooker fell twice. That created a spot for Michael Chandler. It was a one punch knockout and this is the one thing that I that for me. You know, I hate like, fights that that don’t go as long as they need to to see what the actual outcome was going to be. But because we’re talking about it, this is a nice segue to what happened to Dan hooker. Right. Dan hooker was surging this dude was coming up the ranks. He was getting ready to have a claim for a title shot himself coming out of city kickboxing. This is where Israel out of Sanya Alexander volkanovski those guys in New Zealand reading championship MMA fighters, this guy was going to be the third belt that they were going to get potentially at 155 and he gets destroyed by Michael Chandler and Michael Chandler’s debut. They finally caught up with him. And here’s what he said. He’s, you know, he said that, this is one of those funny things where you you you have to rely part on your strategy part on your reaction time, I zigged when I should have zagged he faked down like he was gonna take me down, I reacted to that. And he came over the top with it with with it with a with a big punch and hit me on the chin. He’s like, it happens sometimes, those little gloves, you just can’t, you can’t take it, no one can take a punch on the chin. When it’s on the button, it’s on the button, and he caught me on the button. And basically, that’s what happened. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a story of getting caught by a fighter. And that’s, that’s that’s kind of what happened. Now, he also took off his gloves and threw them left them in the ring as fighters do when they retire. He also spoke to that and he said, I was upset. I was I was angry about how I lost this was basically four months of my life that were completely wasted. And so my initial reaction was to throw the gloves in the middle of the ring and say I quit. He’s like, by the time I got back to the to my hotel, had a moment to think about it. I was like, What the hell so am I gonna do this is this is the only thing I’m good at. He said it was an emotional reaction to having lost, which is what he did. But he has zero intention of retiring from the sport.

John Keyes 1:01:19
Good. He doesn’t need to people lose. It’s that’s just the game. You know, Mike Tyson said it best. Everybody’s got a plan until you get punched in the face. Yeah, I went.

George Stallworth 1:01:31
I like Dan hooker. I think he’s a phenomenal fighter. I don’t want him to get relegated to the cowboy Sironi of 155. You know what I’m saying? where he’s, he has these great performances. But he fails to show up on the fights where he needs, you know, that big win. And I think we’ve seen that with Dan now at least twice. And so I’m a little I’m a little concerned in that sense. He’s not showing up for the big boy fights when he needs to. He lost two who Dustin pourrais in a very similar fashion. And now that that fight with Michael Chandler he’s more than capable of beating both these guys. We know, you’ve got seen Dan hooker when he’s on when he’s on. He’s on. You know, this is a guy that he trains with champions, you know what I’m saying? So it’s not like this guy isn’t capable. But I wonder all the big lights get into them, when it’s that time when that pressure is on?

John Keyes 1:02:24
I don’t think so. I think this was really, I think this is more of a of an accolade for Michael Chandler. Than is a detriment to Dan hooker. No, but I don’t I think the only person that knew what Dan hooker was capable of doing. I mean, who knew what Michael Chandler was capable of doing was Michael Chandler. At that time, he knew he was going to destroy him.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:49
Okay, I

John Keyes 1:02:50
did. So

Ryan Smith 1:02:53
I did. I’m the only one who picked him. Oh, here he goes. But anyway. You know,

George Stallworth 1:03:03
I’d like you guys to go back and watch that fight. Dan did not look himself stepping into Dr. gun at night.

Ryan Smith 1:03:12
He did look tentative. He didn’t

George Stallworth 1:03:13
he looked very timid. He did it. Yeah. And so that’s why I’m saying like, is this a situation where we’ve got you know, cowboy 2.0 Is this a guy that doesn’t show up? When the pressures on you know is there is there’s some mental block going on. I really challenge you guys to go back and watch that fight and look at his demeanor. And the way he handled the fight itself, not the loss but you know, walking up into the octagon the announcements when when Buffett’s calling his name and things like that, and maybe go back and watch some of his previous fights walk out and things like that. And see, do you notice some timidity going on and and wonder where that came from?

John Keyes 1:03:57
That would definitely have to be a challenge because I mean, I don’t see hooker being being at that being like the next Donald serani I don’t see that I just you know, one off night but you know, definitely need to go back and take a look then

George Stallworth 1:04:16
the other thing you know, the the other side of the game on this this guy could be a Dustin play in the future because think about it like this Dustin play several years ago, six years ago, got got his clock clock kicked by Conor McGregor. Look at him now. Yep, look at him now.

John Keyes 1:04:35
That’s me that

Ryan Smith 1:04:36
so so? Bon qui qui out there on on YouTube said Dan hooker is a big lightweight. I thought he was gonna beat Chandler but he thought he was a little bit reckless. I I liked what I liked what what hooker said he goes, he zipped when he should have zagged which I think now I’m gonna have a T shirt made that says always zag because Anytime you sick, you end up you should zag. So it’s always zag. I never say oh, that’s gonna be my shirt. New combat sports talk shirt coming out. They’ll say always add period. I’m someone who should have zagged and has a lot of Zags and her name is Joanna young j chick. You don’t pronounce any of the Z’s. But there There she is. They look like they’re gonna put that her against Yon shall Yon Shannon, there you go. Who is another Chinese fighter who actually remember we talked about this with Zheng Wei Li. They’ve trained in the same gym, they know each other. They’re both coming up from China. Both of these are elite female strikers Yun Chao. Nan is a woman who wants to fight. Zang Wei Lee, but she’s got to get that marquee name on her on her on her belt. And and so you’ll want to MJ chick is still trying to get that that rematch against Zang Wally, but she needs a win as well. So it looks like they’re gonna put these two fighters in looks like it’s gonna be a great opportunity for them to make their claim either for a rematch or a title shot against Zang Wally who’s fighting Carla Esparza and you know how I feel about them matching up Carla Esparza with Zang Whaley

Unknown Speaker 1:06:31
now, has come for us to select one courageous young woman for the honor of representing district 12 in the 74th annual Hunger Games.

Ryan Smith 1:06:46
That’s right. They are making Carla Esparza a tribute to Xang Wally I hate it It should be roasted here note that no hair nama Eunice.

John Keyes 1:06:58
I hope Carla as far as it goes in there and like just the ultimate double leg takedown just puts up to the mat. I’ll talk about put her through the Matt Matt Hughes style. Okay. I don’t mean like mad he’s but I could recognize the man who had a slam. Okay. And I just hope it happens. So I could sit there and call you Ryan and be like, Hey, dude, what you’re doing?

Ryan Smith 1:07:22
Listen, I’ll tell you like this. If Carla Esparza beats Zang Wally in a fight for the title, I will go and buy a crow and I will keep the crow with me for the rest of the year. On the screen.

John Keyes 1:07:43
I want you to do that dude curls by take sighs out, man. No, no, no,

Ryan Smith 1:07:46
no, bro.

John Keyes 1:07:48
I don’t want you to play.

Ryan Smith 1:07:50
Maybe it’ll end up being a Baltimore Raven that will call a crow. I don’t know. Right here on the on the wall behind me. I will mount a crow so that it sits over my shoulder for the rest of the year. For being that wrong about Carlos bars.

John Keyes 1:08:08
I’m just saying, man. I just don’t want you to end up looking like Nick Fury with a real one. That’s awesome.

Ryan Smith 1:08:15
By the way, it was a cat that scratched out his eye not a not a crow.

John Keyes 1:08:19
No, that was not no cat. That was a floured. All right, get it right. All right. I

Ryan Smith 1:08:24
am trying. I’m not trying to go back into Marvel Universe. You guys clearly own that mental space.

John Keyes 1:08:31
You brought it there. You brought it to the court. I just don’t do it. That’s all I do. That’s what I do. So all right,

George Stallworth 1:08:38
we’re getting some some questions from bon qui qui. One of the things he asked was, how would a Ferguson versus Chandler fight play out? I know we kind of moved on from that. Yeah. But uh, just

John Keyes 1:08:50
violently.

Ryan Smith 1:08:52
You know, the thing is, is as much as I am a Tony Ferguson fan, you guys know, he’s my number two guy after Mighty Mouse, right? But I’m starting to think that Tony Ferguson represents the old guard. And what we are seeing is a new crop of dynamic fighters who do not fight in a way that’s compatible with Tony Ferguson. Now, I’m gonna I’m ride or die for Tony Ferguson, I will pick him but I think that when you put someone like Chandler, he’s very similar to Justin he very explosive, very powerful. We saw how that played out. Tony’s got to get this fight to the ground. He’s got to use jujitsu and neutralize a lot of these strengths. And I’m concerned that he would take too much damage. And and, and this would not be a fight that looks good for him. Right. All right. Anybody else?

John Keyes 1:09:52
Now that you know, I’m surprised, though that you think that Tony Ferguson is already Old Guard did you say? Are you saying that he is the last of the old guard?

Ryan Smith 1:10:05
I think he he may be the last of the old guard. I forgot what season of The Ultimate Fighter he was on. But it was it was the mid season like eight, six or eight something around there. Yeah. So he’s been here a long time. He’s been in some wars. And I’ve followed Tony Ferguson’s career, you know, for a very long time. I, I think that he needs to change something up, add a wrinkle to his game, because the game is continuing to evolve. And he is working with his own coaches in his own little Nexus. And I think he needs to go and maybe experiment outside of snap jitsu. I know this is blasphemy. I don’t want I don’t want Alfa kui to come out from under my bed and be like a. You’re talking about me. I’m sorry.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:00
Just a

John Keyes 1:11:02
couple of fun facts that he is. He’s 36 years old. His birthday is on February the 12th. So Happy birthday, you know coming up. Yeah, he is 3637. So yeah, he is. He’s seen some things he was on season 1313. The Ultimate Fighter that was 2010. And he was actually on Team Lesnar as a matter of fact, he won.

Ryan Smith 1:11:30
Yeah. So So that’s, that’s, that’s my thought. I think that he he represents the old guard. I think things are changing. The game is evolving. And I think that he’s probably going to need to have a something change a new wrinkle in this game. If he wants to. He wants to keep staying relevant. Because he’s starting to he’s starting to I’m really concerned about him. All right,

Unknown Speaker 1:11:56
let’s

Ryan Smith 1:11:57
let let let’s go on. Um, so we talked about you wanting to check the question that I had for you guys about Joanna is if she loses to Yon Zhao, Nan Does, does Joanna fall into that Uriah Faber role? Remember Uriah Faber where he was a world beater for everybody under ranked under like two or three. And then when he got a title shot, he couldn’t win it. And and, you know, he got a title shot he couldn’t win it. And so he just stayed at like number one and number two, and was the gatekeeper if you wanted to get a title shot kind of had to beat your eye a favor.

John Keyes 1:12:42
Are you saying that she is a bridesmaid, but never the bride? Well, she’s

Ryan Smith 1:12:47
already she’s already been the bride and she was you know, she was on her way to being the most decorated female champion in the UFC until she met rose the no hair nominee units. Right and then she lost twice to rose. The the the thing is, is that at this point, Joanna has fought for the title at least three times. I think she fought I think Valentina Shevchenko was champion when she fought yo Valentina. And so you’ve seen Joanna fight a whole bunch of times. Add to that, that she’s starting to ask for more money and you start running into a situation where I don’t think UFC has a lot of a lot of patience and tolerance for her. So you know I’m a big fan of yada yada he but I think she ends up I think she ends up with with gatekeeper status if she doesn’t beat Yan Zhao. If they make that fight nipple

John Keyes 1:13:50
man forget that gatekeeper says she might be on that 60 list Alright.

Ryan Smith 1:14:01
So as for fun story Dustin point A we were talking about him he is going to be on the next episode of Hot ones now we know that he’s got a hot sauce that he’s been selling actually it’s he’s been selling out cuz he ain’t got no more and and so he’s gonna be on hot one so I’m interested in seeing how he does because he is from Louisiana you know they like the cayenne pepper and so we’ll see if he can handle we can handle that

John Keyes 1:14:31
I’m sorry you broke up there a little bit what what kind of

Ryan Smith 1:14:36
guy here pepper

John Keyes 1:14:38
Cayenne guy yep all right my bad My bad. Yeah, he’s got you know I’m not gonna talk bad about Louisiana cuz I love Louisiana. I love the food. I love the people don’t like the alligators, except when they’re when they’re cooked. You know cooked alligators awesome. Yeah, I think he’ll be fine. I think right fine.

Ryan Smith 1:15:03
I’m gonna watch it. I’m gonna watch it. Watch it. I’ll report back. And he’s gonna be I think what it says. The story doesn’t have a date on it. So I don’t I don’t actually. It just says 11am. Eastern, so,

John Keyes 1:15:21
okay. Soon. So this week, maybe?

Ryan Smith 1:15:27
Yeah, Thursday, Thursday, Thursday at 11am Eastern.

John Keyes 1:15:32
Yeah, that hot sauce is real dope man. I’ve seen people you know like interest Elvis said he asked the guy did did he know how to fight? Did he want to fight? Because he asked Do you know how to fight? Do you want to fight is like Oh, come on, man. But

Ryan Smith 1:15:49
speaking of asking someone if they know how to fight this weekend is knuckle mania Bare Knuckle FC has their their main event is UFC. Paige Van Zandt is going to make her debut at BK FC fighting with no gloves on. And a lot of people are concerned about page because Paige was not that great in the UFC. She wants some fights. She was a great fighter, but not that great. Not title contention. Great. And so now that the gloves are coming off, now that she’s getting into a ring where she’s going to be expected to stand and bang. The question is whether or not Paige is going to like, how she looks after this match. And so because she’s heard it so much people have she basically had to tell people that listen, I am scared of getting cut up. I am scared of having scars on my face. Actually, statistics show that having scars on your face makes you more attractive. I don’t I don’t know. I mean,

John Keyes 1:16:59
you know, I heard many miscellaneous facts in my life. But I don’t know about that. I mean, do I like a chick with a scar? I might be I might be like, Hey, girl, what’s up? But you know, I don’t know. All right.

Ryan Smith 1:17:17
So So statistically, it is actually true that facial scars, at least for women, men, they find men more attractive by several points. If they have facial scars. If women have facial scars, men do not have a preference, whether they have facial scars or not. Men, they are equally attractive. So she is right, that statistics do show that fate scars make you more attractive, but that’s for the men, women find men more attractive. But for women, men don’t really care. She’ll so Paige vanzant can go how she looks today. She can start looking like you know have the scars like Frankenstein or or whatever on her face.

George Stallworth 1:18:05
We on the verge of a Casey Kinney conversation. No, no,

Ryan Smith 1:18:08
I’m not. We’re not. This is this is statistical. This is this is this is based on the article that she was basically quoting the study that she was quoting that men do not have a preference whether or not women have scars on their face or not. That’s all we’re saying. We’re not saying anything more than that. We’re gonna cap that five,

George Stallworth 1:18:30
zero to 10 how hot it is.

Ryan Smith 1:18:34
We’re not going there because that would be wrong. Right? It would be wrong to objectify Paige vanzant in that way, I would actually prefer that she stops doing some of the other stuff that kind of eggs that that type of people on. Anyway.

George Stallworth 1:18:50
That’s a conversation for another day. Moving on to the next topic. Ladies and gentlemen,

Ryan Smith 1:18:55
moving on to the next topic. And that topic is that topic is the fight cards happening this weekend. Let’s get into it. The fight card.

All right, this is the fight card. This is where we look at the fights that are happening this weekend. UFC Vegas 18 overeem vs. volkoff Saturday, February 6 2021. At the UFC Apex Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada. We have six fights on the card. Vanilla dairy use, is back in action facing off against Diego Herrera. Now do you know vanilla dairy use we we like to call him out on the show because he is one of those people that are near and dear to john Key’s his heart. why might you ask is the reason why vanilla dairy ish is near and dear to john Key’s His heart is because vanilla dairy use is known for walking out to music such as rock with you by Michael Jackson or Broken vessels by Hillsong or other types of not warrior music, but just kind of sentimental or Christian faith based music. Not something you would expect.

John Keyes 1:20:16
I’ll just say it’s just that music that makes you think, do I really need to fight this guy? Is it really that important that I get this check or do I just take this L and call it a day?

Ryan Smith 1:20:27
A lot of fighters have been taken ELLs from vanilla Dariusz because he’s I think he’s on a winning streak. He’s been he’s been actually surging at 155 and could find his way into the top 10 with a few more fights like this one. Cody stamen is fighting Andre. He will and that’s a late fight replacement. I think it was a COVID positive test that got Cody’s original opponent out so we’ll see what happens there Manal copy is fighting Alexandra Pinto cough or maybe it’s Pinto Jeff depending on where that they’re from Brazil or not. Macy just say on check,

George Stallworth 1:21:10
no JSON.

Ryan Smith 1:21:11
json Thank you. facing off against Marian Renault. In the CO Main Event you’ve got Frankie Edgar versus Corey San Hagen that’s going to be a really good fight and then in the main event, Alistair overeem versus Alexander Volkov we’re going to lash fight pick the Frankie Edgar and Corey San Hagen fight. So, Coach well you got Frankie Edgar or Corey. Stan Hagen

Unknown Speaker 1:21:38
cool Frankie. All right, Frankie Edgar.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:45
JOHN.

John Keyes 1:21:46
I love Frank Jaeger. Okay, just for the simple fact that if you beat if you beat one of my favorites, you instantly become my favorite. Okay. All right.

Ryan Smith 1:21:58
So, uh, so I’m going with Cory Sam Hagen.

George Stallworth 1:22:01
Of course you are new.

Ryan Smith 1:22:07
The Old Guard is going away, man. This is this is it. Frankie Edgar? is is is is his old his old guard and I think fast.

John Keyes 1:22:14
Is it too fast?

Ryan Smith 1:22:17
It’s a young man sport. It’s a young man’s sport. All right. In the main event of the evening, you got overeem vs. Alexander volkoff junkie so you got Oh, man,

John Keyes 1:22:29
that’s a lot. That’s a lot of meat to move in that ring. I’m gonna go with the ovaries.

Ryan Smith 1:22:36
Okay, coach.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:40
I’m gonna rock with over him as well, man.

Ryan Smith 1:22:45
I would take volkoff but I can’t. You know, you can’t stop the surge man. I’m gonna ride over him because this guy’s been making it happen.

John Keyes 1:22:56
Stop, stop, stop. you’re violating your own rule, sir.

Ryan Smith 1:23:02
Oh, he’s rule number one, isn’t it?

John Keyes 1:23:05
Yeah, number one. Yeah.

Ryan Smith 1:23:08
Okay, so this is what we know. Rule number one is never bet against the Russians.

George Stallworth 1:23:19
When they’re in Russia, oh,

Ryan Smith 1:23:21
no, no, no, no, no. Never never bet against the Brazilians when they’re in Brazil. Yeah. So therefore, I am challenging my I’m changing my pick. I’m number one. You got a drink? Yeah, well, in vocable number one.

George Stallworth 1:23:41
So I was gonna say, all of Alistair overeem his last fights. His last seven fights have all ended by knockout. Whether he got knocked out or not. Or he knocked out his opponent. Finish. So don’t don’t expect this when it goes to the judges, ladies and gentlemen. Somebody’s going to sleep. Yeah, I don’t 707 fights. He he actually only lost three of them. He lost against Francis in Ghana, Curtis blades. And then who’s the other one on roses? I don’t know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How you say his name. Yah. Yah. Yah. Yah.

Ryan Smith 1:24:23
Yah. Your hands. Oh, Rosen stroke.

George Stallworth 1:24:25
Yeah. So expect somebody to go to sleep?

Ryan Smith 1:24:30
Yeah, I don’t I don’t think volkoff is gonna be it got knockout power. He’s gonna cut him up with 1000 you know, 1000 paper cuts, but I don’t think he’s gonna finish it. He’s gotta go. He’s got to go the distance. All right. We would be remiss. We would be remiss if we did not flash fight pick knuckle mania main event. Now Chris lieben. If you remember Chris leavin, he is still fighting in Bare Knuckle FC facing off against Quintin Henry. You got Johnny Bedford versus that win and then

John Keyes 1:25:00
Okay, not that that went that way is that the Cowboys that went not that one is a different that one, right.

Ryan Smith 1:25:10
And then in the main event, you got Paige vanzant versus Britton Hart. So let’s go ahead and make that flashlight pick. How many of you guys which you guys have page bands and win this fight? Man.

John Keyes 1:25:25
I’ll take her

George Stallworth 1:25:27
umbrella page on this as well. She’s been on those big, big stages. So I’ll give out by that. You know, I’ll be a hookah bear.

John Keyes 1:25:35
All right.

Ryan Smith 1:25:37
Well, I am not a believer. I am hater number one. So definitely put me on the Britain part hype train. Because I’m a

George Stallworth 1:25:46
big research Have you done on Britain art?

Unknown Speaker 1:25:51
You see that?

Ryan Smith 1:25:53
Right. It looks like the inside of a donut that might

John Keyes 1:25:59
be related to like, Bret Hart.

Ryan Smith 1:26:02
I don’t think so. But yeah, I got no reason other than I don’t believe Paige Van Zandt is going to make that transition to bare knuckle FC in a smooth way. So maybe, maybe maybe they they’ve booked a tomato can for Paige Van Zandt possible because it definitely suits the promotion, having Paige Van Sant when in dominating fashion, but I just I this is a lady who was on Dancing with the Stars y’all. Just saying? She’s not a she’s not a grimy boxer in there in Bare Knuckle boxer.

John Keyes 1:26:41
Hold on chuckle Adele was on Dancing with the Stars.

Ryan Smith 1:26:45
Did he come back to the UFC afterwards? Did he come back to fighting afterwards?

John Keyes 1:26:49
Yeah, he did come back to fighting. Did he get finished? Yes, I

Ryan Smith 1:26:52
Tito Ortiz.

John Keyes 1:26:53
Thank you. Yes.

Ryan Smith 1:26:54
I wrestled. I wrestled I came. If you have gotten to your point in your career, where Dancing with the Stars is an option, you probably aren’t a fighter anymore.

John Keyes 1:27:08
Wow. So what a fear of mass singer is that? That down low on the totem pole.

Ryan Smith 1:27:14
I’m just saying if you’re if you’re doing reality

John Keyes 1:27:16
shows, ladies and gentlemen,

Ryan Smith 1:27:19
you’ve probably you’ve probably done you’ve probably done you you start to think career options outside of your sport at this point. You’ve probably done the same. Follow us on social media on Instagram. I’m at combat sports talk coach.

George Stallworth 1:27:36
I’m at Darkside underscore muy Thai underscore

John Keyes 1:27:40
and john Keith. I am at keys to victory and that’s keys within Yes.

Ryan Smith 1:27:45
All right. You can find us on our website at www combat sports talk.com and we are on all of your favorite podcasting platforms. Wherever you find your podcast we combat sports talk our there wasn’t a shout out to MMA junkie, MMA fighting MMA mania, bloody elbow, and we’ve already plugged in but we’ll plug in again, the intelligent defense discussion group on Facebook join us there because that’s where a lot of these conversations begin. So on behalf of George g money, Stallworth and john keys, my name is Ryan Smith, reminding you to keep your hands up, your chin tucks and throw bombs. We’ll catch you next time.

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